fried mine
yup…fried mine…the one that was very stable
so, i am thinking of ordering one “custom” built on line.
what specs would you suggest for under $1000 ?
I have my old drives so drives are not in question, ram =2g, but what about amd vs. intel, xp vs. vista ?
things like that.
…its only a hobby…its only a hobby…its only a hobby…
thanx
cliff
Hi Cliff,
I have been eyeing one of THESE add a second hard drive and you’re still under a grand…
D
PS I forgot… I’d order mine with XP though. I’m just so used to it and I’m paranoid. Some guys report no problems at all with Vista, others report the stuff nightmares are made of… You have to take it all with a grain of salt of course…
Hi Cliff, stay away from Vista right now, a year from now who knows. It may change, drivers for soundcards, WaveRT support. Right now it’s slim pickens working with Vista.
trying to stay away from vista is pretty difficult…
i also notice new pc’s have sata drives. will i still be able to use my former ide drives (as second drives)?
cliff
Under a $1000? You can build one killer machine for that kind of money these days.
I would probably use a motherboard with firewire and USB2 built in and with external connectors, a case with front firewire/USB2 connections, a Quad Intel CPU, lots o’ ram (2gig+), 2 SATA drives (300gig+), a decent video card, a strong power supply, a few large (quiet) case fans, and Win XP. I would buy some external drive boxes for your left over hard drives.
Actually, that is pretty close to what I use now and it is rock stable and cheap.
Mike
I would suggest that you look at mine on Custom Made DAW.
You can get a machine for under $1,000 but a good, high-end machine is going to be more.
Mine is $1,199.99 plus shipping.
The components I use are VERY good.
The machine that Mike’s describes is much more than a $1,000 (unless you can find a major manufacturer like Dell selling it for that price).
I have no experience with Vista but it is a $25 upgrade. I don’t necessarily recommend it but my feeling is that it is time to switch now. On my next DAW, I will be putting it on.
Quote: (g8torcliff @ Nov. 02 2007, 7:24 AM)
trying to stay away from vista is pretty difficult.....
i also notice new pc's have sata drives. will i still be able to use my former ide drives (as second drives)?
cliff
If you can't find a MOBO that supports both SATA-II and IDE drives, I'd pop for a couple external Firewire enclosures and drop my old IDE's in them. If you don't need to stream from them, USB2.0 will be fine. Having said that though, I have recorded and played back a few 16 - 20 track projects just fine with USB2.0 at 24/44.1. It's just that FW still has USB2.0 beat at sustained transfer rates.
D
Even if it doesn’t have an IDE controller, they are maybe $10-$15. I still say the Dell Optiplexs are great DAW machines. Cheap, stable, and great warranties… and you can still get them with XP installed from the factory.
Quote: (MidnightToker @ Nov. 02 2007, 8:43 AM)
The machine that Mike's describes is much more than a $1,000 (unless you can find a major manufacturer like Dell selling it for that price).
I love a challenge and this was an easy one to face (although it took me 10 minutes to come up with the websites to prove the Toker wrong).
Quad Intel CPU and Motherboard $325.84
2 gig of DDR2 memory $84.94
2 320gig Hard drives $133.96
Fanless GeForce 8500 video card $69
You can get a DVD/CD burner almost anywhere for under $50.
With the above motherboard, you will need a Firewire card ($30) and you still need a case.
My addition has the above at $693.74. That leaves just over $300 for a powered case and Win XP (plus shipping).
I think that keeps us under the "much more than a $1,000" that Toker describes. Of course, I could have done better if had spent more than 10 minutes looking. Careful who you challenge; I have been building computers since Amigas were the computer of choice.
take care,
Mike
I just took a look at Microcenter prices and they can beat what I quoted above in parts prices. So if you do not want to have stuff shipped to you, you can go to Microcenter and just pick it up. 
Mike
Quote:
I think that keeps us under the "much more than a $1,000" that Toker describes.
Well - I should have qualified what I said.
I looked at some of your components and I've never even heard of them.
The ones I buy cost a lot more.
Just the Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz is $279.99 on NewEgg.
I never buy motherboards & CPUs together but they may be just fine.
The Asus mobo's I use cost $150 - $200, but the MSI may be fine.
I tend to use the boards that gamers use (Asus & Abit) because usually they are better.
I only use high-end memory so that memory you cite is very inexpensive (and it's slower than what I use).
Also, I've never even heard of the disk drives use, so I would NEVER use them!
I usually use Seagate (and other name brands) and they cost much more than that.
Sure, I can build a real cheap PC too, using cheap componenets but I would never go that route myself, nor would I recommend it to someone else.
Thanx you guys…i think i have made my decision…
cliff…
Quote: (Mr Soul @ Nov. 04 2007, 2:40 PM)
Quote:
I think that keeps us under the "much more than a $1,000" that Toker describes.
Well - I should have qualified what I said. I looked at some of your components and I've never even heard of them. The ones I buy cost a lot more. Just the Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz is $279.99 on NewEgg. I never buy motherboards & CPUs together but they may be just fine. The Asus mobo's I use cost $150 - $200, but the MSI may be fine. I tend to use the boards that gamers use (Asus & Abit) because usually they are better. I only use high-end memory so that memory you cite is very inexpensive (and it's slower than what I use). Also, I've never even heard of the disk drives use, so I would NEVER use them! I usually use Seagate (and other name brands) and they cost much more than that.
Sure, I can build a real cheap PC too, using cheap componenets but I would never go that route myself, nor would I recommend it to someone else.
Wow Mike, I realize that you must qualify your expenses when building a computer, but you do not need to disqualify the parts I stated. The drives are Western Digital Drives and the memory is 6 layer, performance grade Samsung, Micron or Infineon memory. You have heard of those memory companies haven't you? MSI is a very respectable motherboard company (since you build machines, I would expect that you already knew that).
If I wanted to build a "real cheap PC", I could do so for much less than $1000. No, the parts I laid out would be plenty fast and reliable. As far as your statement that, "I looked at some of your components and I've never even heard of them.", maybe you need to get out more or even occasionally just look past your ASUS.
take care,
Mike
PS...
I should add that with the rate at price drops for parts, the prices I previously stated have already come down a few percentage points. Microcenter has quite a few computer in the less than $1000 range that are plenty fast. Still, if you check out their site you will find everything you need to build an even better system for the bucks you want to spend.
Doc, you just said the hard drives are Western Digital but the link you posted was to Ascendtech manufactured hard drives. Nothing on the page says they are Western Digital. Where is that info?
Hi phoo. I got that info off of Pricewatch which linked to that page. In case it is not what they said, here is yet another link to Western Digital 320gig hard drives in the same ballpark price (about $5 difference). I have found that if you look around, you can find sales on even larger drives by major manufacturers (like Samsung and Hitachi) for about the same price. But 320gig internal SATA drives for about $70 is not unusual these days.
It is not my intention to belittle Toker’s homemade computers. I have no doubt that they are a well built machine. If fact, my suggestion to “build your own” came before Mike mentioned that his machine was available. Then he took a pot shot at what I said intimating that a quality machine could not be built for $1000 when in fact I knew it could (I’m not big on being called a liar). So I spent the 10 minutes finding the parts needed to build such a machine for well under the required $1000. This includes the one of the fastest quad processors to date.
Lastly, Mike suggested that you may be able to get a quality machine from Dell at under $1000. I would disagree only because Dell tends to put lousy parts in their cheap computers (they sometimes put lousy parts in their expensive ones). This does not mean that the computer is doomed to fail, it just means that you can put better quality parts in a homebuilt computer of the same price (generally). There are some builders out there that put quality parts into their sub-$1000 computers, but it has been well over 6 months since I concerned myself with such information on a weekly basis. A little research into some of the PC magazines (Maximum PC, CPU…etc) and hundreds of Computer hardware sites will yield some of that information if you are interested.
Mike
I agree with why you say about Dell. I have four Dell machines at work and all four have issues specific to each machine related to hardware. All for have been rock solid when looking at the rest of the hardware.
One machine came with 2 WD hard drives that failed within three months (replaced by Dell).
One machine has onboard networking that will not work if the net cable is plugged in when the machine is booted (unplug - reboot - plug in - all is good).
One machine has an Audigy 2 SZ that has no MIDI input (not even hardwired on the PC card - it’s an OEM card made for Dell by Creative).
One machine has onboard Realtec AC97 that supports 5.1 playback in software and hardware but only the headphones jack is hard wired to the front. There are no plugs or pins on the motherboard for a breakout box to access 5.1 playback, or line input (also stuck with the mic jack in the front).
And one machine (the net issue machine) has onboard SoundMax that REALLY craps out if the SoundMax drivers are used (blue screens all the time) Use Intel AC97 reference drivers and all is well. The SoundMax drivers expose 64 input and 64 output channels, yet it is a stereo I/O chip.
Hi phoo:
I’m reading your reply regarding the “Networking” issue you talk about…
Does that ever sound like the LAN Issues I have with my setup over here…
I get it all up-and-running and when it runs it’s perfect.
After a few days of normal use I’ll boot everything up and NO-GO…
The system wouldn’t communicate…
I’ll re-install all the software and it’s good again, till whenever…
It’s a real headache…
There’s a Linksys Switch connecting three Machines through Cat-5 Cables and StarTeck 10/100 kbs PCI Cards in each machine…
When it works it’s so-nice…
I don’t know what the issues are that cause the system not to work…
Bill…
p.s.
I forgot to comment… No one ever regretted buying quality… I went through the hard drive failures here… Most of the drives I used were Maxtor Drives… Till they began to spin-up at boot time “Slower-and-Slower” over time… till a point in time that they wouldn’t spin up to stability and be recognized by the operating systems. Some I got replaced under warranty… others I replaced with Western Digital Drives. I use some 24 drives here in my set-up…
The Big-Time Audio guys don’t use any brand names but Seagate-OR-Better Drives… Most of them are Hard-Core SCSSI Users… BUT… The SCSSI Drives were never large enough in size for them… Some of them are converting to SATA Drives…
These Audio Guys can be somewhat “Fickle” in their preferences toward Hardware…
What I regret is… The money you have to Lat-Out when it comes to archiving your Audio Work…
Quote:
What I regret is.. The money you have to Lat-Out when it comes to archiving your Audio Work..
Long term archiving can be a real pain in the butt. Right now, I am mid-length archiving on external hard drives carefully stored (1 to 2 years). For long term, I buy archive quality DVD and CD discs and drop my files onto them (also carefully stored). My biggest concern when long term archiving is finding somewhere safe to store the files AND keeping track of what is on those discs so that the information can be reliably retrieved in the future.
About the Maxtor drives. I believe that all the major hard drive manufacturers (including Seagate) have had problems with their drives at one time or another. I have personally owned a handful of Seagate drives that did not last a year. That is one of the main reasons I read the PC journals daily to keep up with the good and bad at any given time.
Since the computers I build are all used mainly for audio and video editing, I am very careful as to what hardware graces my machines. But even in the world of powerful workstations, there is hardware that is not needed to get the job done fast and reliably. For instance, you do not need the fastest video card, or the prettiest case, or the power supply that lights up with blue LEDs, or even the memory that has an LED readout of it's throughput.
The machine I use right now is an old bugger:
Athlon X2 4600+ (dual core)
2gig ddrPC3200
2 320gig Western Digital drives (I usually have 3, but one just pooped out)
Radeon 850XT
Sound Blaster Live with Live drive
Memory card Reader
Win XP home
Lite-on 16X DVD burner Surepower 500watt supply
I keep all "quiet" fans in this rig. The 850XT video card is a noisy bugger and will probably be replaced soon. This rig has been running solidly for many years. And it still renders video at a respectable clip.
You could probably buy the parts to this rig for well south of $800.
Take care,
Mike
Dr Guitar,
Let’s get on the same page - the original poster was talking about having a machine made for him.
My statement was he could not get a Quad Core for under $1,000.
I believe you quoted him components alone, which of course you could get for under $1,000.
I stand by my original statement - the Quad Core CPU that you cited is $279.99 on NewEgg, so that means that MSI board must be pretty cheap.
Quote:
In case it is not what they said, here is yet another link to Western Digital 320gig hard drives in the same ballpark price (about $5 difference).
When I clicked the link you provided, it did not show Western Digital or any other brand I was familiar with.
Western Digital drives are OK but they probably are not as quiet as Seagate.
In fact, I’ve heard that the WD, 10,000 RPM drives are loud.
I use Seagate drives because they have a reputation for being quiet.
So again, my original statement holds - I was not familiar with some of the brands you were cited.
Also, the board that you cited uses an older chipset than the one I use - a 945GC.
It supports only DDR2 533/667 which is slow compared to today’s standards.
A Dell would use a mobo that supports DDR2 533/667.
Quote:
It is not my intention to belittle Toker’s homemade computers.
I have no doubt that they are a well built machine.
My machines are well built and I never thought that you were belittling them.
If you look at the components I use, you couldn’t belittle them even if you wanted to. When I talk about a quality machine, I am referring to a machine that a gamer would use.
Quote:
Then he took a pot shot at what I said intimating that a quality machine could not be built for $1000 when in fact I knew it could (I’m not big on being called a liar).
I don’t recall calling you a liar.
All I heard you saying was that you could build a “killer” machine for under $1,000.
I agree but a “killer” machine would have faster components than the one’s you cited.
Also, why get a Quad core - what benefit will that get you?
A Dual Core 2 should suffice shouldn’t it?
I don’t know anything about MSI boards,
but I do know about Asus & Abit boards.
I know that they are good.
But forgot about the brand, the motherboard is the heart of the computer, so I would never use an inexpensive mobo, even if it was an MSI board, which I’m sure that there are some expensive ones.
Quote:
performance grade Samsung, Micron or Infineon memory
I’ve heard of them but I wouldn’t use it.
I only use Geil or other high-end memory.
Quote:
Lastly, Mike suggested that you may be able to get a quality machine from Dell at under $1000.
I would disagree only because Dell tends to put lousy parts in their cheap computers (they sometimes put lousy parts in their expensive ones).
This is what I said - "(unless you can find a major manufacturer like Dell selling it for that price)"
I stand by this statement.
While I agree that Dell’s are not made from the best parts, I’ve used them for over 10+ years at my work (every day, all day).
I’ve never, ever had a problem with one, nor have any of my colleagues (50+) have had trouble with them.
I’m using a Dell laptop now and it works very well.
When I made the original post, just the parts for my DAW were around $1,000.
Just the motherboard I used is $200.
I’ve now modified the components and they are $877.00, so maybe we are not that far off.
I also put on an expensive CPU fan because the ones that come with the Intel CPUs are very, very noisy.
I also use quiet cases.
I add $200 for my labor and shipping of the components to my house.
With the 3% that PayPal charges me, there’s not much left over for me.