Proportional spacing was available
"Everything that's in those documents, that people are saying can't be done, as you said, 32 years ago, is just totally false. Not true. Proportional spacing was available. Superscripts were available as a custom feature. Proportional spacing between lines was available. You can order that any way you'd like," said document expert Bill Glennon.
Richard Katz, a software designer, found some other indications in the documents. He noted that the letter "L" is used in those documents, instead of the numeral "one." That would be difficult to reproduce on a computer today.
Several of the document examiners said one clue that the documents may be forgeries was the presence of superscripts — in this case, a raised, smaller "th" in two references to Guard units.
But Katz, the software expert, pointed out that the documents have both the so-called "superscript" th (where the letters are slightly higher than the rest of the sentence, such as 6th ) and a regular-sized "th". That would be common on a typewriter, not a computer.
People just don't want to believe that CBS memo's are true because they are "true believers", i.e., they can't take anything that cuts a chunk out of their belief system.
It seems to me, based on the evidence, that Bush is probably lying about his guard duty, i.e., he didn't fulfill his guard commitment.
Richard Katz, a software designer, found some other indications in the documents. He noted that the letter "L" is used in those documents, instead of the numeral "one." That would be difficult to reproduce on a computer today.
Several of the document examiners said one clue that the documents may be forgeries was the presence of superscripts — in this case, a raised, smaller "th" in two references to Guard units.
But Katz, the software expert, pointed out that the documents have both the so-called "superscript" th (where the letters are slightly higher than the rest of the sentence, such as 6th ) and a regular-sized "th". That would be common on a typewriter, not a computer.
People just don't want to believe that CBS memo's are true because they are "true believers", i.e., they can't take anything that cuts a chunk out of their belief system.
It seems to me, based on the evidence, that Bush is probably lying about his guard duty, i.e., he didn't fulfill his guard commitment.
http://www.flounder.com/bush2.htm
It is amazing how an entire network can continue to insist on deluding itself, and how a particularly blind, loyal following will happily lap up the swill it is presented with.
We need a strong Democratic party. What the Republicans are doing to this nation is happening only because the Democrats have become a sickening, pitiful joke. The bullshit that is posted all over the place here is exactly why there is an exodus from the party. Kerry and Edwards representing me or even understanding me? And then they all want me to close my eyes to the most obvious blundering mess of a campaign in history.
It is the Democrats who are destroying this country by making themselves unviable. Get your pitiful, sickening act together and take your party back. Without two parties, we’re all sunk. The past four years of Republican rule shows us exactly what we have to look forward to.
If you really think you’ve done anythinng here but help the Republicans, think again. If CBS thinks it has done anything but hand a landslide over to GWB, think again.
YOu guys are sickening.
This is all the proof I need. The shear chance that an old typewriter would line up PERFECTLY to a Word doc using the default Word settings is beyond belief, even if a typewriter did have the same fonts and characters.
Maybe I am missing something, but didn;t these documents come from the Whitehouse in response to a freedom of information law suit fromthe AP. So the Whitehouse put out phoney docs? That woul dlead me to think the Whitehose created the dirty trick. Or did I get my facts all backwards. This story and the swift boat stories are sooooo stooopid I haven’t paid a ton of attention to them.
It is all the proof that somebody who is conscious and has his eyes open needs, Phoo.
Dan Rather is on suicide watch, I hear.
Is Fox and are Rush and Hannity biased? Of course. They are the only alternative to the likes of CBS, ABC, NBC, USA Today, the AP Newswire… You want to know why that last privately financed effort at creating a liberal network failed so completely and miserably? Because it is just another of the same. Let a couple people come on the scene offering ANYTHING different, and they become the dominant media force in the industry!
What so many haven’t awaken to yet - but apparently FINALLY some are, (thanks to Dan Rather!,) is that the Democrats are a failure. They left the mainstream a long time ago. They are the party of the shrill special interest… the party of group rights, the party of anything goes unless it goes against the group mindset, the party of John Kerry and John Edwards - mega millionaire elitists both.
The Democrats tout themselves as the party of inclusiveness, yet they exclude anybody who dares question the party line. Mike… consider all YOU have worked so hard to exclude from your party! You are the best weapon the Right has right now - you and all of those like you… and like Dan Rather.
Thank you.
I still can’t believe that so much attention is being paid to a 30-year-old piece of paper. I’ll say it again, Bush must be delighted with the way these distraction tactics are panning out for him… And he’s got so much mileage from it as well. How many weeks has this been going on?
How about discussing the real issues that actually matter. For example the economy, the war on terror, Iraq… These are the things that should be relevant to the voters I would have thought, not something that happened 30 years ago.
Bubba - do a little reading. These documents were “uncovered” by CBS. They were not part of the SF-180 release that Bush signed - completely independent of it, and CBS won’t reveal their source or make the “originals” available. (I won’t mention that Kerry STILL refuses to sign the same document - which would release the rest of HIS military records and put an end to ALL of this crap, and which he had promised to sign back in April.)
Anybody who spends ten or fifteen minutes looking into this will come away holding his nose.
I still can't believe that so much attention is being paid to a 30-year-old piece of paper.
The reason so much attention is being paid to it is because it is indicative. It is a symptom. And it is NOT a 30 year old piece of paper.
There was a time, not so very long ago, when 60 Minutes had a reputation that would not have been questioned. The blind bias of Rather and CBS has eroded its ability to be believed. Remember, it was Rather and CBS who chose to MAKE this an issue... and the Kerry campaign who chose to run him as a National Hero. Now he has become the lightning rod for a 30+ year buildup of swallowed anger.
You are dead to rights questioning how this garbage has become the issue. CBS has made it so.
We live in interesting times.
The reason so much attention is being paid to it is because it is indicative. It is a symptom. And it is NOT a 30 year old piece of paper.
There was a time, not so very long ago, when 60 Minutes had a reputation that would not have been questioned. The blind bias of Rather and CBS has eroded its ability to be believed. Remember, it was Rather and CBS who chose to MAKE this an issue... and the Kerry campaign who chose to run him as a National Hero. Now he has become the lightning rod for a 30+ year buildup of swallowed anger.
You are dead to rights questioning how this garbage has become the issue. CBS has made it so.
We live in interesting times.
Maybe I am missing something, but didn;t these documents come from the Whitehouse in response to a freedom of information law suit fromthe AP
There are two sets of doc's - one produced by CBS & one from a lawsuit. The CBS doc's are in question & the "official" doc's are not. The "official" docs still don't answer what Bush was doing for 6 months during his quard duty.
The "true believers" here would like you to believe that CBS (or someone) forged these doc's. I still don't believe that CBS would do this because I am not a "true believer".
The "true believers" want you to believe that the Democrats/liberals are evil & have conspiracies & that the Republicans/right-wing are the "good" guys & never lie. But it's the other way around IMO - the "right-wing" has taken over & they've systematically discredited Democrats/liberals so everyone believes this sh*t.
I still doubt if these doc's are forgeries but even if they are, CBS would be stupid to put them on TV if they hadn't checked them out. I don't believe Dan Rather/CBS is that stupid but if they are, then they are stupid.
Everything that Pete says about the Democratic party (which I don't believe) is true of the Republican party which he steadfastly support even though he says he's not a Republican. "True believers" believe the Republican spin machine in exactly the same way that people accuses me & others in believing the Democrats. And then they discredit the press, so you can't really argue anykind of argument with them because they discredit all & every source of information you might present.
Yes - it's interesting times we live in (dangerous times IMO).
There are two sets of doc's - one produced by CBS & one from a lawsuit. The CBS doc's are in question & the "official" doc's are not. The "official" docs still don't answer what Bush was doing for 6 months during his quard duty.
The "true believers" here would like you to believe that CBS (or someone) forged these doc's. I still don't believe that CBS would do this because I am not a "true believer".
The "true believers" want you to believe that the Democrats/liberals are evil & have conspiracies & that the Republicans/right-wing are the "good" guys & never lie. But it's the other way around IMO - the "right-wing" has taken over & they've systematically discredited Democrats/liberals so everyone believes this sh*t.
I still doubt if these doc's are forgeries but even if they are, CBS would be stupid to put them on TV if they hadn't checked them out. I don't believe Dan Rather/CBS is that stupid but if they are, then they are stupid.
Everything that Pete says about the Democratic party (which I don't believe) is true of the Republican party which he steadfastly support even though he says he's not a Republican. "True believers" believe the Republican spin machine in exactly the same way that people accuses me & others in believing the Democrats. And then they discredit the press, so you can't really argue anykind of argument with them because they discredit all & every source of information you might present.
Yes - it's interesting times we live in (dangerous times IMO).
The "true believers" here would like you to believe that CBS (or someone) forged these doc's. I still don't believe that CBS would do this because I am not a "true believer"... I don't believe Dan Rather/CBS is that stupid.
No - Dan Rather thinks YOU are that stupid.
It never ceases to amaze me how you take something somebody else said about you and neatly turn it on the world, Mike. You are a fascinating case, indeed. Microsoft Word has been discredited, has it? By the true believers?
Keep on plugging. Would you like a well advertised web page of your own to say anything you want on? I'm willing to set it up for you, so long as you are willing to keep on doing what you are doing.
You are being paid to sit here by the Bush campaign, aren't you? How else could we explain your nearly 24/7 presence? You're a shill! You're a plant! I heard it on CBS!!!!!
No - Dan Rather thinks YOU are that stupid.
It never ceases to amaze me how you take something somebody else said about you and neatly turn it on the world, Mike. You are a fascinating case, indeed. Microsoft Word has been discredited, has it? By the true believers?
Keep on plugging. Would you like a well advertised web page of your own to say anything you want on? I'm willing to set it up for you, so long as you are willing to keep on doing what you are doing.
You are being paid to sit here by the Bush campaign, aren't you? How else could we explain your nearly 24/7 presence? You're a shill! You're a plant! I heard it on CBS!!!!!
It never ceases to amaze me how you take something somebody else said about you and neatly turn it on the world, Mike. You are a fascinating case, indeed. Microsoft Word has been discredited, has it? By the true believers?
Did you repro the MS Word "proof" yourself or take it from some web site? Is is true that using defaults you can get the exact same memo. And what about the handwriting - was that done by MS Word also?
What advantage does Dan Rather gain by presenting false information?
Who did these forgeries Pete?
What did Bush do during the 6 months?
Did you repro the MS Word "proof" yourself or take it from some web site? Is is true that using defaults you can get the exact same memo. And what about the handwriting - was that done by MS Word also?
What advantage does Dan Rather gain by presenting false information?
Who did these forgeries Pete?
What did Bush do during the 6 months?
The blind bias of Rather and CBS has eroded its ability to be believed. Remember, it was Rather and CBS who chose to MAKE this an issue... and the Kerry campaign who chose to run him as a National Hero. Now he has become the lightning rod for a 30+ year buildup of swallowed anger.
Now I do agree with you here about the Kerry campaign, i.e., it was a mistake to run him as a National hero at least the way it was done.
What I'd like to see is a rewind back to Watergate, but with today's people & mindset. How would you be discrediting the WP & the reporters who got that story out? You'd be saying exactly the kind of stuff you say today - that the press is bias & lying & the Democrats are liars & hyopcrits.
Now I do agree with you here about the Kerry campaign, i.e., it was a mistake to run him as a National hero at least the way it was done.
What I'd like to see is a rewind back to Watergate, but with today's people & mindset. How would you be discrediting the WP & the reporters who got that story out? You'd be saying exactly the kind of stuff you say today - that the press is bias & lying & the Democrats are liars & hyopcrits.
The shear chance that an old typewriter would line up PERFECTLY to a Word doc using the default Word settings is beyond belief, even if a typewriter did have the same fonts and characters
That's a pretty scientific explaination I'd say.
And it's beyond my belief that a person hit by lightning could survive or that a blind person could see after being hit my lightning.
I suggest that the MS Word doc "proof" is no such proof. You guys obviously didn't read this:
Several of the document examiners said one clue that the documents may be forgeries was the presence of superscripts — in this case, a raised, smaller "th" in two references to Guard units.
But Katz, the software expert, pointed out that the documents have both the so-called "superscript" th (where the letters are slightly higher than the rest of the sentence, such as 6th ) and a regular-sized "th". That would be common on a typewriter, not a computer.
"There's one document from May 1972 that contains a normal "th" on the top. To produce that in Microsoft Word, you would have to go out of your way to type the letters and then turn the "th" setting off, or back up and then type it again," said Katz.
That's a pretty scientific explaination I'd say.
And it's beyond my belief that a person hit by lightning could survive or that a blind person could see after being hit my lightning.
I suggest that the MS Word doc "proof" is no such proof. You guys obviously didn't read this:
Several of the document examiners said one clue that the documents may be forgeries was the presence of superscripts — in this case, a raised, smaller "th" in two references to Guard units.
But Katz, the software expert, pointed out that the documents have both the so-called "superscript" th (where the letters are slightly higher than the rest of the sentence, such as 6th ) and a regular-sized "th". That would be common on a typewriter, not a computer.
"There's one document from May 1972 that contains a normal "th" on the top. To produce that in Microsoft Word, you would have to go out of your way to type the letters and then turn the "th" setting off, or back up and then type it again," said Katz.
Mike, you look at the world and you see yourself. And you can’t stand it, can you? You assume everybody is just like you. You ascribe the only characteristics you are familiar with to everybody around you.
By the way… this is a personal attack in direct response to what you choose to believe and scream out about anybody who doesn’t tow your line. You are the exemplary Democrat. Absolutely exemplary.
So… if I put a smilie on the end of it, it’s all right, right?
Mike, you look at the world and you see yourself. And you can't stand it, can you? You assume everybody is just like you. You ascribe the only characteristics you are familiar with to everybody around you.
By the way... this is a personal attack in direct response to what you choose to believe and scream out about anybody who doesn't tow your line. You are the exemplary Democrat. Absolutely exemplary.
I surely don't see the world as myself, nor do I think everyone is like me, so you're way off on this one.
I am equally amazed at you Pete - how you beleive the stuff that you do & how you justify it by the exhaustive analyses & searches that you seem to do. How you believe that there's this conspiracy that abounds in the press & in the Democratic party but yet it doesn't exist elsewhere. I see the patterns, Pete, but I see different ones than you. I see many people brain-washed by what the right has done after the past 10 - 2o years. How they have manage to villianize the press, trial lawyers, Democrats, etc., etc. - everything that gets in their way.
I know that if Bush were a Democrat you'd be all over his case & turning up all kinds of lies about him. You've bought into this whole villianizing of the Democratic party & the press, i.e., that we're all liberals & elitists. It's just plain crap is what it is.
What it will take is for things to continue the way things are heading here, before people to wake up & realize what's happened to them. Then people will start to switch back to the Democrats & liberals.
By the way... this is a personal attack in direct response to what you choose to believe and scream out about anybody who doesn't tow your line. You are the exemplary Democrat. Absolutely exemplary.
I surely don't see the world as myself, nor do I think everyone is like me, so you're way off on this one.
I am equally amazed at you Pete - how you beleive the stuff that you do & how you justify it by the exhaustive analyses & searches that you seem to do. How you believe that there's this conspiracy that abounds in the press & in the Democratic party but yet it doesn't exist elsewhere. I see the patterns, Pete, but I see different ones than you. I see many people brain-washed by what the right has done after the past 10 - 2o years. How they have manage to villianize the press, trial lawyers, Democrats, etc., etc. - everything that gets in their way.
I know that if Bush were a Democrat you'd be all over his case & turning up all kinds of lies about him. You've bought into this whole villianizing of the Democratic party & the press, i.e., that we're all liberals & elitists. It's just plain crap is what it is.
What it will take is for things to continue the way things are heading here, before people to wake up & realize what's happened to them. Then people will start to switch back to the Democrats & liberals.
I watched the Rather report on the 60 minutes article. It seemed like “good” reporting to me. Rather went through the questions & presented their experts & then analyzed the content of the doc’s for consistency.
I guess CBS paid Bill Glennon, Robert Strong, Marcel Matley & Richard Katz to lie about all this because that’s what we saying here, correct? That means that Rather is knowingly lying also.
Original article - CBS Defends Report.
Question - what is these doc’s were true? Then what would you guys believe?
From Drudge (gotta be true - right) - TEXAS GUARD SECRETARY SURFACES.
<!–QuoteBegin>
| Quote |
| “I did not type these particular memos. I typed memos like these,” Knox told the DRUDGE REPORT from her home in Houston. “I typed memos that had this information in them, but I did not type these memos. There are terms in these memos that are not Guard terms but that are Army terms. They use the word ‘Billets’. I think they were using that to refer to the slot. That would be a non-flying slot the way we would use it. And the style… they are sloppy looking.” But Marion Carr Knox stands by the accusations contained in the allegedly fraudulent documents that Bush skirted a medical and flight exam without suffering institutional repercussions. “The information in these memos is correct – like Killian’s dealing with the problems.” “It was General Staudt, not then Lt. Colonel Hodges [who succeeded Staudt], that was putting on the pressure to whitewash Bush. For instance he didnt take his flight examination or his physical. And the pilots had to take them by their birthdays. Once in a while there would be a reason why a pilot would miss these things because some of them were commercial pilots. But they had to make arrangements to take their exams.” Knox speculated as to how she thought the forgeries were created saying, “My guess is that someone in the outfit got hold of the real ones and discussed it with a former Army person.” Knox worked for the Guard from 1957 until she retired in 1979, and she was Lt. Col. Killian’s secretary during the time President Bush served in Texas. |
What are you guys going to do if & when the truth comes out? Your world will be shattered.
Can either of you really prove your points?
When you say prove, I’m assume that you mean whether the documents are forgeries or not - is that correct?
The con’s have certainly not proven that they are forgeries by their weak MS Word “proof” (this wouldn’t hold up in court or under peer review). The rest of their arguments are from “witnesses” like Killian’s son, etc. who say “Well, he wouldn’t have written doc’s like that”. Again not much real proof of forgery. And then their other argument is that Dan Rather is part of the liberal press & is trying to hoodwink us - again not much real proof.
The pro’s have much more colloborating evidence. And then there’s the whole sticky issue of his 6 month absence which these doc’s directly point to.
The pro’s haven’t proven that the doc’s aren’t forgeries but they have dispelled the weak arguments presented by the con’s.
The doc’s are consistent with what we know about Bush during that period. They point to his not completing his guard service.