Clip Butts!

are they still noisy in 4?

Has anyone noticed clicks and pops when butting clips in v4?

That was a problem I didn’t like much in 3.x I’ve uninstalled 4 for now so I havent tried it.

In Samplitude they have some kind of mini cross-fade when butting clips so this noise problem doesn’t exist. Looping in Samp doesn’t produce any of this either.

Does v4 now have clean butts and loops?

no cents

You mean putting parts of a track together?

Yes but I attributed it to underlying noise, e.g. from cable connections etc

I try to do the best with cross fading or overlapping the parts on an empty expanse…


g

It also depends on the parts you are “butting” together.
If it is like a replacement part for a track (eg. you’ve reodone a part of a guitar solo or something) it shouldn’t be too hard to get a smooth transition between the 2 parts at some stage.
You may need to zoom in and manually adjust the point you cut from one part to the other. Just highlighting a whole measure worth o fthe track and cutting it maynot sound good if your playing or the part is not exactly in time with the song.

If you’re trying to loop something the same thing applies. If the end of the loop sounds similar to the beginning it shou;dn’t be too hard if you zoom in. If it sounds different you may be a bit of a jump/pop.
I’ve also found that some pops can be remove by making 2 parts not actually touch so there is a few milliseconds of space between the 2 partswhere the pop would have been.

HTH
Rich

I’m referring to the clicks and pops heard when audio clips are butted against each other locked together on a track.

You might have noise from cables and other sources as well, but the clicks and pops I’m referring to were clearly part of the program since you could see the cursor pass the splice on the timeline and hear the noise at the same time.

nc

n-Tracks does exactly what you tell it to do. If you say stop playing this wave right here and start playing this other sample right here it will do it. Crossfading or being very selective about where the cuts are is the only solution. Some apps do this better than others because they don’t do exactly what you say, such as cutting only on (locking to) zero crossings or whatever. IF you hear clicks zoom way in at the click and take a look. After a while it becomes easier to see what a click looks like in the timeline.

I’ve never used the crossfade function, but other than that I don’t think n-Tracks has anything special built in to avoid this.

I noticed what you said Lum, that separating the clips helps remove some of the noise, and sometimes all of it.

Phoo, you’re right and its a good/bad thing. N-track does exactly what we have it do- no more or no less.

Have you looked at 4 to see if it has any feature to save us the extra steps?

If I understand this correctly, the click are part of a waveform thats not at 0 where its cut, and therefore the transition between the two levels of two different butted clips jumps when transitioning and thus we get clicks at that point?

no?

no cents

Yep. It can happen any time the wave jumps from one level to another – one sample to another sample – not wave volume. Always cutting on zero crossings is a way to insure the wave is at the same level at the switch point, but doesn’t insure no clicks. It does help a whole lot though.

Very small crossfades is about the best way to do it. That’s basically to fade the end of one wave down over a few milliseconds and fade the other up. If it’s done right then your ears hear it as a clean cut and there is no click.

Lots of wave editors use the technique to make loops that sound smooth when they loop.

Like I said, I’ve never used n-Tracks crossfade, but I’ve definitely run into situations when editing that I should try it. If it works well I might save myself some pain trying to manually find that sweet spot. :)

press ctrl B. it’ll turn on the snap to 0 setting (edit-snap to zero) this will ensure that clips will align at the zero crossing and will be “confirmed” when you see the little circle appear between the two tracks. you can also adjust these setting in the edit menu to pick a positive/negative slope and some other options. just have it on.

you’re getting clicks because the two waveforms aren’t connected and when you jam them together one may have it’s sample at the top and the the next sample in the next file may be at the bottom-result-click.

I should add, I think it works by moving the selection to the zero crossing so you may need to readjust the beginning end points of the selection before they’ll snap to a zero crossing. just take the in point and move it slightly and move it back-it’ll be where you were before but snapped to the closest crossing.

Something else to think about, not only do you need to have both clips cut at zero crossing, but they both need to be going the same way.

i.e. if the first clip ends with the WF going from positive to zero, the second clip needs to be going from zero heading negative-wise.

But even then, unless both WF’s have the exact same shape, there’s going to be a sharp “elbow”, which will contain high frequency components, hence the “pop”.

So perhaps applying a steep low pass filter around the transition point might help?

I’ve never tried it, so only guessing.

Ali

Ali and guitar69, you both make good points.

So the bottom line is both clips need not only to be cut at the zero crossing and in-phase, they need to follow a simialr progression or otherwise there will be too rapid of a jump even with the zero points aligned.

I didn’t know N-track had a feature for cutting at the zero-crossing. This shows how little most of us know about N-track.

no cents

Yes, N has a feature for “snap to zero” for selections. I don’t know whether it applies to dragging wave part end handles, but it would be nice if it did. Also, it supports only-ascending or only-descending.

However, you can still get clicks even when both ends cross at zero and going in the same direction, if the slope is rather different.

What we’re talking about here is a bad splice. There are three things to do about a bad splice:

1) (best method) use a good splice point instead (duh!)
2) crossfade. To do this in n-Track, just overlap the two parts a little and hit the “crossfade” tool. Bingo.
3) spline or filter the region around the splice. This is a wave editor function; to do this you have to print the track to a new wave file and edit in a wave editor, which will allow you to filter the splice point or draw a smooth line to connect the parts.

1 is best because with a little effort you can easily create a noiseless splice. Much easier on a mono track, but usually possible for stereo as well.

2 and 3 usually leave audible artifacts, but sometimes they’re not a problem.

So how do you make a good splice? It’s not hard, but you need to zoom most or all the way in and adjust the splice point so that the two waveforms meet at the same level and almost the same slope.

The level at a splice does NOT have to be zero – that’s just a simplification to make it easy for software to pick likely places. Zero crossing is a useful guide, not a rigid rule. If the splice point looks pretty much like the rest of the waveform, you won’t be able to hear it. If you can see it clearly, then you’ll be able to hear it, too.

Finding a good splice point often requires moving one of the parts ahead or behind in time a bit, but believe me it’s not significant timewise – you should generally be able to find a good splice point without moving a track more than a few milliseconds. Usually, no movement is required, you just have to drag the handles around a bit looking for a good candidate. After a little practice it becomes easy.

I generally do rough, sloppy splices at first, but when I’m confident of the arrangement, I’ll zoom in on them and fix 'em all up. Then there aren’t any clicks or pops.

If the splice point looks pretty much like the rest of the waveform, you won’t be able to hear it. If you can see it clearly, then you’ll be able to hear it, too.