Cut & Paste out of alignment w/ Tempo changes


I am using ntrack 3.3. I am trying to copy a measure of midi (click track) and paste it 100 times starting at the next measure. The problem is that I already have tempo changes mapped out. So when I paste the notes they won’t paste in sync with M:B:T but rather in sync with time. How can I paste a measure of midi so that it lines up with each measure? Anybody know? thanks! ???

If you right-click on a blank spot in the Piano Roll editing window, you can select “Multiple Paste” (you have to copy some notes first, of course). In the “Paste Multiple Times” window, there’s an “Align to measures” check box–have you tried that? The downside I’ve noticed is that it aligns the notes to start of each measures, but the note timing isn’t adjusted for tempo changes; they just play the same as the original clip.



No luck, that’s how it works in Version 3 and earlier. This might be fixed in Version 4; there was a similar problem reported and fixed, but not identical. It had to do with quantization rather than cut/paste, but was the same underlying problem.

I find that N keeps MIDI data in a time base. So, when you paste MIDI, pasted parts retain their timing relationships in real time rather than in metric time (time based on the meter). This is just another way of saying what Scantee said above.

It would be really cool if someone with V4 could do a quick test, copying MIDI and pasting it across a tempo change, and letting us know whether it lines up with measures the same as the copied data.

Scan man, you’re close but not correct about how the paste works. In the piano-roll screen, wherever you put the time cursor, that’s where the first note gets pasted. (The rest get pasted “as played”, just as you pointed out.) If you have the grid turned on, that’ll be on a measure or beat or whatever.

I work around that by pasting in a temporary note that starts at the beginning of a measure.

But there’s another way that sometimes works even better. If you copy/paste (or cut-paste) in the Timeline window with the grid on, it keeps the alignment of the first note relative to the copied area (e.g., measure). In other words, with the grid set to measures, if I copy 4 measures and then select a destination and paste the 4 measures, it does just what it should do – assuming there aren’t any tempo changes. (I don’t know of a good workaround for that problem.)

I suppose this is something I should report as a bug to Flavio. But I haven’t upgraded to Version 4 yet, so I wouldn’t be able to test a fixed version.

Quote (learjeff @ Nov. 20 2004,10:57)
Scan man, you're close but not correct about how the paste works. In the piano-roll screen, wherever you put the time cursor, that's where the first note gets pasted. (The rest get pasted "as played", just as you pointed out.) If you have the grid turned on, that'll be on a measure or beat or whatever.

Oops...but first, are we talking about N-track's definition of "tempo" (time signature) or the other definition, which is "playback rate" or "Bpm" as N-track calls it? I should have asked this first. I assumed "playback rate" and thus probably missed the whole point of the question.

Anyway, what I was trying to say is that across "tempo"=BPM changes, N-track lines up pasted clips on the measure, at least from what I've seen. Over "tempo"=time-signature changes, yeah, it doesn't seem to work, even in Version 4 (I tried it today). And yes, Jeff, you're right--the grid seems to have more to do with the alignment than the "Align to measures"; I just threw it out as a suggestion. The behaviour of N-track MIDI editing is still a bit of a mystery to me.

Sorry for the confusion!


For either case, it’s the same using N V3.3 – the notes keep their real-time values & relationships, and not just within a measure but across the entire selection. The first note in the selection gets aligned wherever you place the time cursor. If you turn off the grid, that can be anywhere. But it’s usually not what we want – we usually want notes to keep their relative values within the measure. (Pasting from one signature to another is a separate question – and maybe shouldn’t be allowed.) You understand what I mean about the time cursor, right?

It may be different for V4.

We should ask Flavio to use the correct terms: Signature for what he now calls Tempo, and Tempo for what he now calls BPM.

Ok, Jeff, I think I might know the main assumption I made which screwed me up. I only assumed the simplest case–copying and pasting only ONE measure multiple times–when it sounds like you’re addressing the more relevant general case which includes copying/pasting a multi-measure clip. Now I think I finally might understand the question! Sadly, I’ve already spat out an answer.

I understand the time cursor thing. 3.3 works as you’ve said (4.xx seems to follow different rules, such as pasting where the highlighting starts, regardless of where the cursor is!). The right-click I mentioned was just to bring up the context menu where “Multiple paste” can be selected.

As for Flavio’s use of Tempo/Bpm–I wasn’t sure if “tempo” meant time-signature in Italy or other countries, so I went “PC” and didn’t call it wrong. Kinda like “rubber” in England vs. the U.S.A. as I’ve heard. :D

Thanks, Jeff,


That reminds me of a visiting Brit who saw a huge sign on the highway that just said “SOD!”. Advertizing blocks of grass you can use to quickly plant a lawn, of course. She said that back in England, it would be equivalent to a big sign with a 4-letter word that also begins with “S”. :wink:

Glad you got our discrepancy sorted out. What you say makes perfect sense.