Dark one...

for the chopping block

HEy guys

it been a while since me post song.

The working title is “Confession”.

IT can be downloaded here:

Confession

or played by way of stream from the myspace site.

would love to hear feedback from a great bunch of guys!
Don’t hold back, but give anything you like or dislike about the composition and whatever you can think of that would improve it overall.

This is my first venture into using midi for a song, and actually a different way of composing as well.
Rather than play the whole song all the way thru on a guitar while singing (which is how I usually would write) I simply played various riffs and ideas I thought would compliment the lyric and melodic ideas I had.
Then, I simply copied and pasted each part into a timeline along with the mixdown midi files of synth-olins, and this was the result.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

It could use some percussion to tie it all together better…nothing too “heavy” though. The vocal is loud and clear at the end, but is too far back in the mix for my taste earlier in the song. (I don’t like having to put a lot of effort into making out the lyrics. I end up deciding they must not have been that important anyway, so why bother.) A good first effort on midi recording. :agree:

Quote: (kevinmyers @ Apr. 19 2009, 11:39 AM)

It could use some percussion to tie it all together better...nothing too "heavy" though. The vocal is loud and clear at the end, but is too far back in the mix for my taste earlier in the song. (I don't like having to put a lot of effort into making out the lyrics. I end up deciding they must not have been that important anyway, so why bother.) A good first effort on midi recording. :agree:

That makes sense.

This was a mix for collaboration, and I am often told my vocals are too loud for people to hear the music and follow....like drummers.....

Will certainly boost that at the beginning for the final mix, once any and all parts that are going to be there done.

I am hoping percussion and base line will round out the sound.

Thanx for the positive heads up, we are a needy bunch sometimes(musicians).....

I may give the midi drums a stab, although I still need to sort out why the midi files(mixdowns wav.s) are not in timing with my wav. files in the same time sig.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

I am not registered there. Should I register?

Quote: (TomS @ Apr. 19 2009, 2:56 PM)

I am not registered there.
Should I register?

Listen by clicking the Music link in Jerm's sig Tom. I didn't want to have to register to yet another site either.

D

Thanks D!

I say just put a tambourine on it, Jeremy, in the obvious places, without over-doing it…seems to me that’d be cool…but I think it stands as it is without any perc at all. A progressive Christian metal ballad. :agree:

Quote: (Diogesneez @ Apr. 19 2009, 3:34 PM)

Quote: (TomS @ Apr. 19 2009, 2:56 PM)

I am not registered there.
Should I register?

Listen by clicking the Music link in Jerm's sig Tom. I didn't want to have to register to yet another site either.

D

Sorry about that guys.

You used to be able to outsource those links to files, but Nick must have put the cabosh on it to save bandwidth.

the link used to read something like this

http://www.musiscianscollaboration.com/cgi-bin/(filename.wma)

Now it is just a series of numbers and dashes pointing to the location of the file, if you are logged in, not a direct link to the file itself.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:
Quote: (TomS @ Apr. 19 2009, 4:47 PM)

Thanks D!

I say just put a tambourine on it, Jeremy, in the obvious places, without over-doing it...seems to me that'd be cool...but I think it stands as it is without any perc at all.
A progressive Christian metal ballad.
:agree:

Tambourine eh?.....hmmm

I could see that working, although I must confess I never would have thought of it on my own.

Especially being a worship leader more often then not and having that annoying tambourine man/lady playing off beat right next to me!
:angry:

kinda turns you off to the beauty and subtlety of the instrument if used in moderation.

Perhaps a jimbay for the bottom end and the tambourine for the top? simple like ya said.

WOW, "it stands as it is" that means a lot to me coming from you Tom, I don't think I have ever had a song that stood anywhere without drums and bass!

HEY! I feel jaded, I put this one on the chopping block, you guys were supposed to say, "cut back on that verb on the vocal it's squashed" and "the timing is off" and "it too long and goes nowhere" etc etc....but I get nothing! but thumbs up.

How is a artist supposed to improve around here if he cannot be grilled lovingly by his peers?

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

Jerm, I would grill ya lovingly and tell ya it sucks, start over . . .

but that wouldn’t be truthful, good job.
Don’t hear anything that really sticks out in the mix.
You could try some different comp settings on the vocals for standing out over the other tracks. Or maybe a wider spread on the vocal tracks with a short delay.
Sounds like a lagg issue if the midi is off timing when mixed down to waves.

Quote: (Yaz @ Apr. 20 2009, 4:17 AM)

Sounds like a lagg issue if the midi is off timing when mixed down to waves.

About that, that was what I was thinking, I had trouble getting the midi to mixdown so I had to take an RCA out of my M-audio Firewire and put it into a 2 channel input, then pressed record.
I basically used the soundcard to play the midi file and process the data to record the wav. file at the same time.
I am not sure what my settings should be inside "timer" system timer, wav. timer....also my soundcard has it's own options, internal, external....so not sure there either.
I don't seem to have any lag during my normal wav. recordings which seems to indicate to me that the system is not lagging the buffer settings are 1000 something inside the Audiophile, so it seems to point towards a timing discrepancy within the midi settings.....that somehow the midi (which seems to be being generated by on on board Realtek soundcard) is not in the same timing as the click track that was generated in another app (Audacity)and rendered to a wav.
I think what is needed is to get the midi settings within Ntrack to be the same as they are in the app I use to generate the click tracks.


Quote:

Jerm, I would grill ya lovingly and tell ya it sucks, start over . . .


That would be GREAT! who knows what could be achieved if I would scrap it and start over. :agree:

Quote:

Don't hear anything that really sticks out in the mix.
You could try some different comp settings on the vocals for standing out over the other tracks. Or maybe a wider spread on the vocal tracks with a short delay.

Will do that, all I did was use the NTrack "vocal" preset in mastering multi compressor.
I find the more I tweek things the worse they sound, so I try and find plugs that have presets for specific things and use them, I used a EQ preset as well on the acoustic guitar and the vocal.
Quote:

Or maybe a wider spread on the vocal tracks with a short delay.wouldn't be truthful, good job.

I am not sure what "wider spread" means, if you could explain that in more detail and dummy it up for me perhaps I can give that a stab.

Also there is a delay on the vocal, I think %3 with %33 feedback using the Ntrack plug. you say "with a short delay" and I can read that to mean two different things, "with a shorter delay than you are using" or simply a short delay which may in fact be a larger delay then the one currently being used.

Try this Jermy, using aux inputs, put a delay in 2 seperate aux. short delays on both,not much difference in the settings, you’ll have to play around with it.
Now pan one hard left and one hard right. Send your vocal track to both, adjusting settings for desired effect, now you have a wider stereo spread of the vocal track.

OK, on the midi you’re saying you have to loop it back thru the soundcard? Thus a loop delay.

You should be able to change the software settings to record what you hear, thus not having to loop it back thru, not familiar with your soundcard.

OK, no tambourine then! That’ll teach ya to be the worship leader!

Quote: (Yaz @ Apr. 20 2009, 9:09 AM)

OK, on the midi you're saying you have to loop it back thru the soundcard? Thus a loop delay.

You should be able to change the software settings to record what you hear, thus not having to loop it back thru, not familiar with your soundcard.

YEah I think that is a possible solution, and easily enough done in Audacity (select "what you hear")

I had no idea there would be loop delay, but certainly makes sense to me.

Another suggested I use the out from the onboard Realtek soundcard (that is playing the midi sounds within windows) and put that into my Audiophile firewire 410.

I did not want to risk some kind of feedback loop having the signal going out from the computer and then back into the computer tho....I like the "record what you hear" idea better.

I am not sure why loop delay would change relative timing, start time yes, but gradual slip....willing to learn more about that.
I would think the delay would be at the beginning, then once it got going it would keep timing.....just like a regular wav. recording does.
IT does reflect the symptoms of lag tho, not an off timing (from a starting point) which leads me to consider it is a "timer" issue that is the manner in which the midi files are being timed is not by the same device the M-audio is timing wav. files during recording and playback.

I don't really know what to select, system timer or wav. timer, inside midi settings so that it will match the timer within the firewire device.(that is set to internal)

Definitely going to try the record what you hear option and see how the timing is on that as compared to the generated click track.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:
Quote: (TomS @ Apr. 20 2009, 2:19 PM)

OK, no tambourine then!
That'll teach ya to be the worship leader!

Oh but we must persevere and conquer our challenges!

I thought, and still do think it is a great idea, and am going to try it despite my bad experiences with the instrument.

The cool part about it is I have a midi file to start with, so dropping in a single note on the grid should be a lot easier than it would have been taking the sound from fruity loops and copying it into a wav. edit a hundred times until my click finger turns purple.

BTW I don't mind leading, but when it becomes a competition for volume between an acoustic guitar and a wannabe tambourine player with poor rhythm I have to bow out.
:D

Usually when you set the guitar down and just start singing a cappella they get the hint....usually.....you start to wonder tho what possess people to do such things.....
:whistle: tonight's bible study is about demonic possession and recognizing the signs....how ironic.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

Demonic possession?

Yep.

Demonic possession

a pun on the line “what possess people to do such things” with no sense of timing whatsoever to play the loudest percussion instrument in an ensemble.
???

The later part of that joke after the whistle guy is an opening line from the same bible study…

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

Quote: (Yaz @ Apr. 20 2009, 9:02 AM)

Try this Jermy, using aux inputs, put a delay in 2 seperate aux. short delays on both,not much difference in the settings, you'll have to play around with it.
Now pan one hard left and one hard right. Send your vocal track to both, adjusting settings for desired effect, now you have a wider stereo spread of the vocal track.

I am afraid after over 8 years using Ntrack you've got me scratching my head about this "aux inputs" thing..... :(

Honestly have no idea where they are, or how I would go about sending anything to them.

but am willing to learn if it is going to improve sound and cannot be done within the ways of mixing I am familiar with, like creating a duplicate track and panning one one way the other another and putting slightly different settings on each.

also the mic I am using has a "stereo" signal setting on it (CAD 8000) tube condenser mic. the setting looks like a figure 8.
I am wondering if panning is going to loose a bit of that effect through the tubes?
That is if I do try this aux thing, if I should split the stereo track into two mono then pan them as suggested?

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

Argh…I can’t seem to get any of your tracks working! :heart-break:

Ange x