?
OK, you mic gurus, I bought one of those inexpensive 70 dollar LD MXL condensors from musicians friend a while back (like a year ago) , and tried it and didn’t like it very much and put it away, but recently got it out again, and after using it for a while (on kick drum, actually) it sounds better to me on other instruments like acoustic guitar. Lots better. I’ve not changed anything - same signal path, same room, same instruments. I once heard someone mention a “burn in period” for an opamp - dunno if that’s a real phenomenon or not - but if so, does the same thing apply to mics like this?
Thanks! 
OK, now the HI-FI gurus will come rushing to the rallying call! 
Tom, I’ve heard some very convincing arguments as to the benefits of burn-in for items as diverse as loudspeakers to ignitrons.
And I’ve heard equally convincing arguments that say it’s a load of old bollocks.
Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between?
But it tends to be a very subjective area, so no doubt the arguments will continue.
However, in relation to your microphone, one phenomena I can recount, is when my HI-FI died for a while, and I had to listen to my wife’s Stereo instead.
To start with, it sounded terrible, but, after a wee while, it wasn’t so bad anymore.
Then, the o/p transistors for my amp arrived, and I was able to fix the beast.
And it sounded wonderful, better than it ever had.
The new o/p transistors?
Nope.
Just the fact that in comparison with what I’d been listening to for the past month or so, it really was wonderful.
Ali
An interesting question…
There are times when my guitar seems to sound great, others, not so great. Same guitar, same lead, same amp.
Ditto, my monitors… mics… etc
I think that some items (particularly mechanical like speakers and mics) must change with age as the moving/vibrating parts age and change performance. Whether that is for the better or not is a good question.
Also, a device like an amp stuffed full of electronic components all with their own tolerances could well sound slightly different depending on the temperature etc.
And then there’s room conditions… colder=more dense air. Gotta affect the sound.
Or perhaps my strings have reached a sweet-spot just like those Bridgestone Formula 1 tyres…
But even more variable is my brain and ears… Perhaps I’m tired, or happy, or down, or my ears need cleaning (yuk, what a thought… sorry about that).
So there you go. My $0.02
Mark
I have three LD condenser mics, a MXL 2001, Oktava 319, and Groove Tubes AM11. I haven’t noticed a change in sound with any of them over time. They sure do sound different from each other, though.
I’m skeptical that it would break in while sitting in a box. I suspect that the change might be an increase in the experience and improvement in the ear of the engineer.
Well, it was sitting in a box for awhile, but then I decided to use it on kick drum, really for no good reason, and I recorded with it there for perhaps 30 hours total recording time, before usnig it on acoustic guitars.
I wondered of course about the subjective nature of the change - perhaps it was just better by comparison to other things I’d been using. But it really sounds different from what it sounded like on earlier recordings. Same basement, same placement, same guitars (same voice too). I don’t think it’s a “phenomenological” artifact.
I dunno, all I know is that the ignition on my 10 year old minivan just doesn’t sound as good as it used to.
But given that it (The mic, not the car) has both mechanical and electronic components, and given that these things do change, well, I am inclined to think that there is something like a breaking in period. I have bought at least two other mics the sound of which has changed over time quite significantly.
Hmmmm… Thanks for the replies, guys!
| Quote (learjeff @ Oct. 02 2004,19:03) |
| I'm skeptical that it would break in while sitting in a box. I suspect that the change might be an increase in the experience and improvement in the ear of the engineer.
|
Oh, and thanks, LearJeff, that was a very nice thing to say!
I dunno, all I know is that the ignition on my 10 year old minivan just doesn't sound as good as it used to.
That was "Ignitron" Tom, not "Ignition", i.e., a sort of diode used for handling very macho electrons.
Ali
That was "Ignitron" Tom, not "Ignition", i.e., a sort of diode used for handling very macho electrons.
Ali
Hey
learjeff made a good point. I bought 2 of those oktava mk 219 mics. My band mate who has 30 years in sound reinforcement laughed at the response graph. The only thing flat about it is the outer casing of the mic. Anyway I tried it on the top head of the snare instead of the usual 57 and it gave me the dark full sound I was looking for. It also works well on my 52 reissue tele and 4-10 deville combo. As everyone sort of knows, that tele bridge pickup can tear your head off and the oktava smoothed it out a little. Mics and mic placement are a true art and there is unfortunately no one mic that can do everything. You probably had the mic angled or turned just slightly different and it made a world of difference. Becoming a good engineer takes lots of practice, patience and experimentation, because there are so many variables in room acoustics, quality of the instrument and how well it is tuned. Especially drums.
Jeromee
| Quote (Ali @ Oct. 02 2004,20:56) |
| I dunno, all I know is that the ignition on my 10 year old minivan just doesn't sound as good as it used to. |
That was "Ignitron" Tom, not "Ignition", i.e., a sort of diode used for handling very macho electrons.
Ali
Ah, an ignitron. Gotcha. Macho electrons. And a thyritron would be?
Anyway, I'm still breaking in my minivan.
And a thyritron would be?
.....a pain in the arse basically.
They invariably have ceramic walls, so you don't get that lovely blue glow and very fetching sun tan ingitrons give.
Ali.
.....a pain in the arse basically.
They invariably have ceramic walls, so you don't get that lovely blue glow and very fetching sun tan ingitrons give.
Ali.
Ali, you are a deep well of wisdom,
I don’t think it beyond reason that hours of exposure to the large SPL’s imposed by a kick drum could not have changed the physical properties of the diaphragm and its mounts in that microphone. Perhaps it “loosened up” over time and has become a little more sensitive to subtle nuances?
I have a Carvin Bel Aire tube amp that I bought in September '02. It was a treat to my ears when new. Now, after much playing through it, I SWEAR it sounds even better. Speakers “wearing in”? I dunno. I just KNOW it’s different in a better way. Not as “harsh” as it used to be. Same guitars, same place, same ears…
Interesting discussion Tom.
TG
Bah, you’ve just lost some more hearing in the high end form playing that amp too loud for too long, just enough to percieve it as sweeter sounding
Or maybe built up some more earwax, it’s been two years now
Ali, you are a deep well of wisdom,
Nah, the years bring experience and knowledge (if you're lucky), but the quenching of my thirst at wisdom's well is a quest that still remains unfulfilled. 
But, back on topic.......
I see there is still no consensus re burn-in.
It's just a shame that Mac (real, unreal or transubstantial) isn't here, then we could have the final, definitive answer!
Ali
Nah, the years bring experience and knowledge (if you're lucky
), but the quenching of my thirst at wisdom's well is a quest that still remains unfulfilled. But, back on topic.......
I see there is still no consensus re burn-in.
It's just a shame that Mac (real, unreal or transubstantial) isn't here, then we could have the final, definitive answer!
Ali
Well, as far as amps gp, tube amps that is, they most certainly change with age. I had a music man 2x12 130 (later they were 150) that sounded oh so fine for the first couple of years, but that hybrid solid state/tube design just didn’t stand up to the years very well…on the other hand, my old Gibson skylark just got better and better until it got stolen.
I DO think the high SPL from the kick has something to do with it in this case. I’m gonna put all my mics on front of the kick and see if it makes them better. Starting with my ribbon.
I have also heard…that humidity has an effect on the diaphragms. In fact, I think it was in Electronic Musician where I had read an article on directly affecting the tonal characteristics of a mic by decreasing/increasing the humidity.
This could have been a factor…even in it’s box!
The only time I have heard of a "break in " on mics is when they are tube mics. And in that case the break in period is an hour or so of the mic letting the tube get good and warm. Past that, I think it is probably a perception thing. Guitarists don’t change amps/guitars/pedals every ten minutes because their tone is any different then the day before. It’s perception, wax in ears, not enough caffeine, too much caffiene, etc.
| Quote (Bubbagump @ Oct. 04 2004,13:05) |
| Guitarists don't change amps/guitars/pedals every ten minutes because their tone is any different then the day before. |
Hehe...
Yep I've given up on trying to get that elusive perfect tone.
I've got what I thought was a decent sound a while back and now just plug into my amp and play at rehearsals instead of spending a bunch of time playing with the knobs on the amp.
I used to continually be playing with the tone and gain controls on the amp throughout over a 3 hour rehearsal cause I kept thinking it never sounded quite right.
It's kinbda like you're never happy with what you got and then you don't know what you got til its gone...
Anyway, sorry for getting abit OT.
Rich