A HUGE amount of a good drum sound is the room. My recordings sound way better in the studio than they did at home. Same mics, same drums, same guy hitting them; the difference is the room first, and the preamps second. Even placement in the room has a large effect (i.e. kit in the middle or along a wall or in a corner). My favorite 3 mic setup is kick, SDC infront of the kit pointing sorta at the snare, and big ol’ ribbon behind pointing at the floor tom. Any mics would do though. I’ve heard great results here with a mic on the kick, and spaced omnis out front at about rack tom height too, but that was an engineer that really knew his business.
It takes lotsa practice to get drums right, and it’s definitely harder the more mics you use. I cringe every time a client wants 8-10 mics on a kit. They get it, and we work to get the sound right, but it’s work. Much better to start with limited mics and build as your skills improve. Nothing wrong with a mono drum mix either, Dean. Yeah, it’s different than stereo, but so what? Once you learn how to rock a mono mix, a stereo one comes pretty easy…
Most home engineers doesn't take the time to get the drums tuned well in the first place, or don't know how to. They can get good sounds if the set sounds good in the first place and the room isn't so bad it kills whatever is there.
Using less mics gives you what you start with. Work with the drum set then out to the mics. The mics are just listening to what's there.
Close micing allows better control and isolation which makes it easier to fix crappy drums later, including replacing the sounds. If you find that you must close mic to get a good sound then you need to go back and work on the drums some more.
Included in the drum set sound is the way the drummer plays them. The drummer needs to be consistent and firm. What he plays is what you get. If he hits like a wimp then the drums will sound wimpy.
BTW: Not being wimpy does NOT mean he needs to hit hard. Jazz drummers don't hit hard for example. A sharp attack is not necessarily a hard hit.
I just remembered that I had posted a drums-only track a few weeks ago as an example. I couldn’t find it on the website (the old link in the other post probably doen’t work as a result…oh well) so I just reposted it. If I’m lucky I put it when it was before.
This is 99% overheads: http://downloads.phootoons.com/just_drums.wma
It’s 192k wma and over 7 megs - sorry. The drums are a complete take from a song we’re (the far tones) currently working on, warts and all. It’s also the same beat almost all the way through - boring by itself. Yes, I could edit it down for this example…but…well…it goes to 11…there is a drum fill around 3:05 just in case you want to hear something besides kick snare and a few cymbals.
preamps are also a big part of the drum sound we’ve become accustomed to on pro recordings.
also a/d converters & sample rates make a difference.
so, to review… the kit, the room, the mics, the preamps, the a/d converters, the sample rate, and i almost forgot, the media used to track to.
i’m a little behind the curve on most of these fronts.
later…
I have been told that on "Blood Sugar Sex Magik" (red hot chilli peppers) that the drums were recorded with just two mics (lead guitarist read it in a mag. can anyone confirm?).
preamps are also a big part of the drum sound we've become accustomed to on pro recordings.
I wouldn't have known that until recentl, I completely agree though. I got to hear a snare through a mixer's preamp then through a decent tube preamp into the mixer and the difference was quite noticeable.
Hey thank’s guys for all your suggestions and for your time on helping me out. Be checkin’ them out and see whats best for the sound i’m looking for. Thanks again guys!!! Best group of people indeed!
BTW do you guys have a DIY simple transistor mic preamp schematic?
problm is blokes r lazy gettin drummy snds today
da room is vital part n da engineer pullin da train
albums been dun usin hall ways n loadin doks
n garages n all sortsa stuff’’’’’ but elps if drumms
snd good fer starters
othr prob is blokes av got lazy wiv sampler gadgets
o’ real drums’’’ n lost perspective on wot a drum shuld sound loike heads blinkin heads
i got a biggie idea fer ya souley mate
tune blinkin drums round song key mate 
Hey Limey - if you had to get a decent sound in a basement or a similarly cramped space, what kinds of things would you try? 
BTW - it’s really good to see you back. 
tom mate, basments are tuff cos some r ok and others naff
so eres wot i wuld do mate’’‘
put up UNO mic in front o’ drums n lissen ta room sound
repeat da process 50 toimes movin drums aroun basment keepin mic in front’’’ n if no way yer can get a bang up snd then go close mics n put some dog cheap office partitions roun drums keepin naff basement snd out via reflektions mate
Well, I haven’t been systematic about it, Limey, but I have put the drums in various places and recorded them and it seems that the back corner gets about the best sound. But I will try it with a single mic (omni?) over the next few weeks as I get time. It’s funny that you mention office partitions, I noticed the other day how much sound the partitions in my office seem to suck up sound - if you put your ear close to it, it gets very, very quiet - it’s like you’ve lost some of your hearing - kind of unsettling, actually. But I hadn’t checked that sort of thing out because they look expensive.
I did try hanging a bunch of packing blankets around the kit once, and that kept out the really nasty reverberation from the stairwell.
Thanks!
If you have two mics only for drums, I’d use them as a stereo pair on overheads.
Then I’d dup the tracks. First, I’d roll off the fundamentals of the original L and R OHs about 5K, just letting the sizzle through. These I’d pan pretty hard.
Then, on the dup tracks I’d do the opposite and low-pass the signal. This, at a minimum would separate the thump and the sizzle into levels you could adjust separately.
Then, if you really want to get jiggy, you can use your frequency analyzer to find the specific freqs the various drums live at and use para EQ to boost or cut as necessary.
For example, notching your bass guitar track with a narrow 5Hz or so slice around the kick fundamental.
Or even grab particualrly nice hits and paste them over woofy hits.
Lot of imagination goes further than just mere gear!
edit - here’s a tune so you can hear the drum sound I’m getting. I use lots of mics though and sample replace kick and snare.
http://music-tom.com/mary.wma
i’m replyin ta tom s ||| toms mate on da office partitns yer need ta get ones dat r squiggly n soft mate not the ard ones mate
yer normally find em at office warehouse places or a firm ceasin bisness fer cheap i av mates pikked em up fer 5 quiddlies each mate
wot ive found wiv drums is mate sumtimes sprucin up
a cheapi kit wiv new eads n good tunin can make a gonzo lotta diffrence n yer MUST do it wiv one mic cos blokes r only foolin emselves addin mor mics finkin da sound will get better
if yer get it rite wiv one mic then addin mor mics is gravy on the roast beef providin yer dont go potty wiv tha phasin
That makes total sense Limey.
Of course tuning drums has remained a total mystery, in spite of hours of painful but fun experimentation…
Anyway, the holidays are here, I get a few days off, so I’m going to go shopping for some partitions.
goody tomsy mate i fink yer got da drift n ya know on tha tuning o’ drums mate tis kinda a rule wiv me to get yer drum eads tuned around da song keys cos then yer complimentin songs n wot yer can try n do is mate ta record a note frum each drum in tha kit n use a freq analizer ta find tha freqs bein put out by each drum in da kit
lotsa clues in wot i jus told ya mate in relashun ta song key
n piano notes
| Quote (Limey @ Dec. 21 2004,18:04) |
| lotsa clues in wot i jus told ya mate in relashun ta song key n piano notes
|
yeah, my son has a small metranome/tone generator we use to tune his set. it works very well. i usually tune the set in fifths to E. E,B,E,B and E for the kick.
the metronome cost less than $30.
hth
later...
One of the things I find fascinating about this craft is the meticulous work needed - tuning drums to fit the song, for exmaple. How many times did we all, as younger musicians, buy an afternoon’s worth of time at our local studio, and plan on doing 8 or 10 songs?
The people who are good at this work hard at it.
n also tomsy mate yer see in studios they got temp controlled envirnments but even so ya gotta still pay attn ta all da likkle details wiv drums’’’ n prob fer likkle basement bloke is lotsa o’ factors muck yer up loike temp n umidity n stuff like dat
so sumtimes yer gotta add ta the drums by triggerin samples cos sampls dont go outta tune n also ya gotta get kik outta da way in a basement n trigger a blinkin sampl in a sampler n
yer get a cleaner drum track n stuff wiv zwei mics over da kit
in da xy ‘’’’’’ n way fer basement bloke ta take on big studio bloke is ta do multiple drum takes ‘’’’ if ya lissen ta gonzo big records they was always mate muckin round wiv live drums mixed in wiv midi drums n sampls n stuff’’’’’ n yer gotta be tuff wiv yer drummer n make him play simple loike on bed traks
so yer can make drum arrangmnt choices n flexibility later on mate’’’’ too many blinkin drummers r too slap appy all over da blinkin place’’’ n also tomsy yer will see on bog songs ow they
use hand percussion n latin stuff , even stones n others
ta chug da beat up a notch’’’ its all in da details mate
av a merry father chrissy mate
Simplicity - good golly, how hard that is for some drummers - how can one say politely that it’s the groove that matters? I make them listen to Stax and Motown and Fleetwood Mac recordings…
Joyous Noel to you too, Limey!