Feature request.

Volume Grouping

Hello, I have a feature request to ask for. Grouping of track volumes.

Reasoning: I’m able to record individual tracks for each drum part which can have anywhere from 7 to 10 tracks. It’s nice I’m able to control the volume of each instrument like the kick drum or the high hat individually, however, there are times when I need to boost the whole set of drums or even 2 track stereo tracks for that matter. Currently, I have to bump each one up individually which can led to mistakes in trying obtain equal volumes throughout the process.

What is needed: A small icon/bullet located on each track volume on the track mixer that when pressed turns green. When two or more tracks are green (Grouped) when the volume is increased/decreased by .1 +/- by a single track marked green for example, the tracks that are green will adjust their volumes equally the same. This will make it possible for me to set all my drum tracks green and all that will be required is adjust just one drum track volume while all the rest (grouped) follow with equal increments thus boosting the entire drum section with precision. This would be the default. One click green.

Further options to enhance the feature: Right click option to include, “Group only with track #” and provide a color selection for the icon/bullet. In doing it this way it will be possible to have multiple volume groups sorted by color. For example, 2 track stereo vocal-red, 2 track stereo backup vocal-blue, 2 track stereo 2nd harmony-yellow and so forth. All that would be required to increase the volume on any of these 2 track takes is to simply adjust one volume slider instead or having to adjust both.


Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

PACO

Hi N-track can “do” Groups would this do what you wanted?
Nick

2.3.11. Group Channels

It's often useful to adjust the settings of a group of tracks at the same time. Having to change the same setting for many tracks may be tedious; instead, send a group of tracks to a dedicated group channel. Create a group channel by selecting Group/Add Group Channel in the Output to drop-down list in the track's Properties dialog box. When the group channel is created, a new channel strip appears on the mixer window. More than one track can be sent to a group channel, so that when you adjust the setting of the group channel, all of the group's tracks are influenced.

A group channel can have its own effects, can send its signal to aux channels and can have automated volume and pan just like a regular track. Group channels can in turn be sent to other group channels, allowing you to organize the song in a hierarchy of groups and allowing for great flexibility in the routing of signals.

I’m with Nick on this one,

the other day I was really zoomed in on a track and didn’t realize what was highlighted elsewhere.
I began drawing a volume node and when I zoomed back out I notice the same pattern on 5 different tracks, I can’t tell you how it happened or why other than user error but it does seem capable of it.

dontcare :cool:

Yup, I was thinking about that while I was creating the post. I was thinking of terms of space since adding more channels really takes up space when working with 24+ channels. I’ll officially withdraw the feature request since the basic functionality is already present. Thanks for the input.

PACO

Quote: (Paco572 @ Jan. 02 2012, 7:24 PM)

Yup, I was thinking about that while I was creating the post. I was thinking of terms of space since adding more channels really takes up space when working with 24+ channels. I'll officially withdraw the feature request since the basic functionality is already present. Thanks for the input.

PACO

after giving the OP more than a passing glance I don't think volume envelopes on multiple channels is exactly what you are looking for (although it is a good start to have them in place and even).

IF it's anything like out of the box mixing you might be looking for a volume router matrix for a master mix down.

I was thinking something that would highlight a specific point on one of the Nodes (make that node say silver or Red when the rest are green) that is attached to a volume knob and breakout box emulation and by turning that knob (which you could route to say a AXIOM 25 through MIDI CC or a Roland EV-7 for example) the volume for that point (and any point connected to it) would then raise or decrease to your increment in real time, allowing for more of hardware feel to the mixing process.

Another added advantage would be if Ntrack could record in real time adjustments made to the connected Nodes in the router from hardware controllers... you might still have an feature request here.....but I digress...

dontcare :cool:

I use Groups all the time.
For instance: assign all the Back-up singers to Group One.
Now you do not have to re-balance each singer to change effects or volume on the Back-up singers; just change the Group One fader or effects.



My one complaint is that I would Love to have a new Track display created when the group is created - the display would show a drawn wav form displayed as do stereo track displays.
This would allow you to more effectively draw envelopes in the same way it can be done on individual tracks.
Currently group envelopes can be displayed, but they draw on top of tracks that are arbitrarily assigned by the program: “Group/instr, volume” displays on the top track 1 wav display.
To me, this undercuts the effectiveness of the volume envelope feature for Groups.
A work around is to move a back ground singer to Track 1, still not a happy solution for me.




This might require that an actual recording file be created for the Group - and that may be what Flavio has done with Audomation in the newer versions. I think you can automate/record fader movements for group tracks, but I don’t know how to do it, and I can’t get it to work. Below are the instructions from the manual on automating envelopes.
Maybe someone can try it and see if they get it to work properly on Groups and can explain which button the instructions are calling for. Only icons are shown in the instructions ( a complaint of mine for instruction writers) and to see the icon you will have to go to the actual Help menu manual (I copied the instructions here but the icons did not display) – it looks like the record button, but . . .
Thanks,
Bax

“2.2. Volumes and effects parameters automation

“…… An alternative way to program the evolution of a parameter is to use the fader automation: during playback, click on the
button on the main transport toolbar. When this button is activated, every action on a mixer's fader (volume sliders or pan knobs, excluding the master volume knob) will be recorded in the evolution graph of the relative parameter. If the
button is pressed during playback, the faders will move according to the relative parameter's programmed evolution. Once an evolution has been recorded moving a fader, it can be edited on the timeline window displaying the relative parameter's evolution clicking on the
button on the toolbar.
Holding down the SHIFT key allows to freely draw the evolution of the volume (i.e. every move of the mouse will create a new node in the piecewise linear waveform).
Unlike what happens with all the other parameters, the aux returns evolutions are shown for every master channel (i.e. output soundcard) and aux channel in the same screen: even if these evolutions are drawn on top of certain tracks, there’s no direct connection between this tracks and the return evolutions, which applies to a particular aux channel and not on single tracks.
If you want to perform a fade in/out, you can select the time interval during which the fade should take place by dragging with the mouse on the track and then selecting the Edit/”Volume/Pan drawing”/Fade In/out menu option.
By clicking on the X icon
on the toolbar, the current selection will be muted, i.e. the volume evolution will be put to zero. Clicking on the same button holding down the CTRL key will destructively silence the selection: the wave file will be modified in an unrecoverable way (except for the undo
).
Effects parameters automation works with both DirectX plug-ins and VST plug-ins, but while any VST effect will allow its parameters to be automated not all DirectX plug-ins allow it. To see if a DirectX plug-in supports automation select ‘Effects parameters' from the drop-down menu, select the effect in one of the ‘effect' drop down boxes. The plug-ins parameters will be listed in the drop-down box on the right. If no parameter is listed the plug-in doesn't supports parameters automation.”

Quote:

I think you can automate/record fader movements for group tracks, but I don't know how to do it, and I can't get it to work.


Best I have gotten it to do is with midi tracks, but that data is stored as CC07 (volume).

I agree with your assessment thus far, in that I think a visible routing matrix or break out penal with the Nodes and their associated tracks would be best for workflow, as you say some programing is already in place for grouping, it would just be a matter of having the Node data/colors/track association be visible and changeable in the Group Mixer/Router.

I thought I read somewhere in 06~07 that as side chain display/router was in the works for V6, but I don't know if it ever got off the ground, if it did, that would be the place I'd like to see a Nodes router,
a display of some kind of the nodes and their ties to each track, sort of like a sentence diagram is what I am visualizing.
The problem I have with nodes is it takes too much time to set them up if you are trying to do a lot of different volume changes (some grouped, some not) it would be advantageous if selected node points(and their connections to other nodes) could be adjusted with a hardware nob as the song plays and that data could then be stored as it's own midi track or whatever format is best, the way I visualize that is having a node follow the play timeline as it moves on a single track, then as it is lowered and raised it saves all the points of changes onto all the associated tracks, like a trippy end trail effect with hundreds of points being stored in real time.....this would a allow for much smoother punches and sudden up/down increments as the volume would go up and down in a curve instead of straight V lines.

dontcare
:cool:

Dontcare, your idea may be a simpler solution. :agree: An actual wav does not have to be displayed for the Group, but the changes could be recorded and viewed - perhaps the display could show a representaton of wav energy, that is, a display to show the volume (it could look like a wav form but actually be a volume meter for the Group) as a background to the envelope line and nodes.
Anyone Figured out the current instructions yet?
Bax

Quote: (bax3 @ Jan. 03 2012, 6:27 PM)

Dontcare, your idea may be a simpler solution.
:agree:
An actual wav does not have to be displayed for the Group, but the changes could be recorded and viewed - perhaps the display could show a representaton of wav energy, that is, a display to show the volume (it could look like a wav form but actually be a volume meter for the Group) as a background to the envelope line and nodes.

I got the idea for the nodes automation feature from the RockBand game.

When you sing it has a ball that goes up and down and lights up when it is on the right pitch, this ball follows the play line. (well it stands still and the play line passes it, same difference)

Basically what we need is real time node variance recording function, even if we use a digital fader or knob.

dontcare :cool:

Reaper does this. ducks

Heresy!! Off with his head!!!

Quote: (bax3 @ Jan. 03 2012, 9:23 AM)

I use Groups all the time.
For instance: assign all the Back-up singers to Group One.
Now you do not have to re-balance each singer to change effects or volume on the Back-up singers; just change the Group One fader or effects.



My one complaint is that I would Love to have a new Track display created when the group is created - the display would show a drawn wav form displayed as do stereo track displays.
This would allow you to more effectively draw envelopes in the same way it can be done on individual tracks.
Currently group envelopes can be displayed, but they draw on top of tracks that are arbitrarily assigned by the program: "Group/instr, volume" displays on the top track 1 wav display.
To me, this undercuts the effectiveness of the volume envelope feature for Groups.
A work around is to move a back ground singer to Track 1, still not a happy solution for me.




This might require that an actual recording file be created for the Group - and that may be what Flavio has done with Audomation in the newer versions. I think you can automate/record fader movements for group tracks, but I don't know how to do it, and I can't get it to work.
Below are the instructions from the manual on automating envelopes.
Maybe someone can try it and see if they get it to work properly on Groups and can explain which button the instructions are calling for. Only icons are shown in the instructions ( a complaint of mine for instruction writers) and to see the icon you will have to go to the actual Help menu manual (I copied the instructions here but the icons did not display) – it looks like the record button, but . . .
Thanks,
Bax

“2.2. Volumes and effects parameters automation

“….. An alternative way to program the evolution of a parameter is to use the fader automation: during playback, click on the
button on the main transport toolbar. When this button is activated, every action on a mixer's fader (volume sliders or pan knobs, excluding the master volume knob) will be recorded in the evolution graph of the relative parameter. If the
button is pressed during playback, the faders will move according to the relative parameter's programmed evolution. Once an evolution has been recorded moving a fader, it can be edited on the timeline window displaying the relative parameter's evolution clicking on the
button on the toolbar.
Holding down the SHIFT key allows to freely draw the evolution of the volume (i.e. every move of the mouse will create a new node in the piecewise linear waveform).
Unlike what happens with all the other parameters, the aux returns evolutions are shown for every master channel (i.e. output soundcard) and aux channel in the same screen: even if these evolutions are drawn on top of certain tracks, there's no direct connection between this tracks and the return evolutions, which applies to a particular aux channel and not on single tracks.
If you want to perform a fade in/out, you can select the time interval during which the fade should take place by dragging with the mouse on the track and then selecting the Edit/”Volume/Pan drawing”/Fade In/out menu option.
By clicking on the X icon
on the toolbar, the current selection will be muted, i.e. the volume evolution will be put to zero. Clicking on the same button holding down the CTRL key will destructively silence the selection: the wave file will be modified in an unrecoverable way (except for the undo
).
Effects parameters automation works with both DirectX plug-ins and VST plug-ins, but while any VST effect will allow its parameters to be automated not all DirectX plug-ins allow it. To see if a DirectX plug-in supports automation select ‘Effects parameters' from the drop-down menu, select the effect in one of the ‘effect' drop down boxes. The plug-ins parameters will be listed in the drop-down box on the right. If no parameter is listed the plug-in doesn't supports parameters automation.”

Bax,

you can record group volume automation pressing the small record button located to the right of the 'Bpm / Meter' section in the right part of the transport toolbar (the one with the big play, rec etc. buttons).
I agree that showing the group (and master) envelopes over the tracks is a little awkward.
I'll add to version 7 a switch to select which channel types are shown on the timeline, so that groups, masters and auxs will appear below the tracks with their envelopes.

To clarify a few other things about envelopes in this thread:
- you can apply an envelope edit to all the tracks currently selected (selected by shift+clicking on the waveform), when the "Timeline right click" -> "Envelope" -> "Apply edits to all selected tracks" option is active.
- you can 'draw' the envelope instead of manually defining points activating the "Envelope" -> 'Click adds node' option and shift+click+dragging.

Flavio.