for nerds

because i am a man who knows no fear, i am going to install suse 9.1 on my girlfriend’s laptop this evening…

anyone else running this os?.. i’ve only played with the livedvd and was happy with it… although i prefer slackware, i’m thinking that she’d be better off with suse… i have also considered mandrake, as i’ve heard fairly good reports about it being friendly to non-techie types…

i’ve also started looking over at freshmeat for audio apps and such… lotsa software over there…

isaac

I’m a debian fan myself, I’ve helped some friends with Mandrake, their package management system is real perty. Suse has a long history, and I know they are very well respected.

Audio apps? Ardour/Zynaddsubfx/Hydrogen/Rosegarden/Jackd - Can’t go wrong. Just check the hardware compatibility first, Alsa supports most audio hardware - but not all…

.-=gp=-.

sadly, i have to be rather careful with this being my girlfriend’s machine… the easier, the better, which is why i’m still considering mandrake… if crayola made a distro, that would be even better… doesn’t mandrake use the same package manager as fedora/red hat (rpm)?.. as for audio apps, that’s only wishful thinking… she only wants an office suite and a way to maintain her financial accounts… she’s no fun :D… although i did come across SLag, which was unfamiliar but looked interesting…

isaac

Yes Mandrake uses .rpm packages.

The tough part about installing Linux on a laptop is often the hardware is specialized for laptop use, (lower power consumption, smaller space). Although they do there best to keep it compatible there are sometimes problems with code that is written for desktop systems.

You might want to look at Linspire, which is a very Windows-like system that is capable of running native Windows applications. It’s a combination of Linux kernel with Wine and Cedega (Windows and DirectX translation layers). That way you get the best of both worlds. It is licenseware - i.e. it ain’t free, but it’s very competitively priced.

One issue that you may run into: None of the Linux distros will include the good X server for nVidia or ATI video cards. These you need to get from nVidia or ATI respectively. Although the distros do include a generic X Server for these you can’t expect very good performance - 800x600 or 1024x768 at best. Installing the nVidia X server was easy for me, their script takes care of compiling and installing. I don’t know about ATI.

And unfortunately, no n-track will not run on Linspire - I tried.

:(

Mandrake is actually a spinoff of RedHat, so they are very much alike. RedHat decided years ago that they were going to do it their own way, and deviated from the Unix standards in some very unintuitive ways.

This is why I recommend Debian to anyone who asks, it’s fully POSIX compliant, supports tons of hardware, and the new testing distro installation scripts are fantastic. I built an Athlon 2800+ box last year, expecting to have to fight with the system to install hardware. I put the CD into the drive, booted the box, then my wife needed me for something. I came back 25 minutes later and it was done! All hardware was working, X server was running. I had to make zero changes to make it work. Just don’t get the “stable” distro, get “testing”, this is one step below stable, but one step above “unstable”, you get the latest bells-n-whistles after they’ve been debugged. And debian has 2 different office packages.

And just in case Ardour (Recording), Zynaddsubfx (Soft Synth), Hydrogen (Drum machine), and RoseGarden (Sequencer) are all available as .deb packages for quick and easy installation (and uninstallation if she busts you playing on her laptop!).

Enjoy

.-=gp=-.

SLab is very old, hasn’t been updated much since 2000, it only supports OSS drivers ($$) doesn’t support low latency and doesn’t interconnect with anything else

Check out:
Ardour Project Page

.-=gp=-.

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And unfortunately, no n-track will not run on Linspire


i suspect that n-track uses a lot of native windows API calls…

last night, i was able to get suse 9.1 up and running on her laptop… it’s a very attractive OS, for sure… the display works fine, but i’m having trouble getting the d-link wireless card up and running… the good news is that she probably won’t even need that card, as she only wants dial-up for limited use…

suse has a set of utilities built into something called YaST… it seems to do a great job of organizing the system entities (hardware, configuration)… the installation was fairly easy, but it did fail on me at least twice before it was up and running… are all of the new distros using grub now instead of lilo?..

so, my girlfriend will get her first taste of linux tonight… i just hope she’s happy with it, because i really don’t want to rebuild that thing with win98… i seriously doubt i’ll be installing any audio apps on this thing, as it is rather slow… so, i guess she need not worry about that… damnit :)

as for debian, i will probably download the new distro and have a look over the next week… what are the two different office packages with debian?.. star office/open office is great… and i saw another online in the last couple of days, but the interface looks horrible…

thanks,
isaac

nerds is right. What language are you guys using? ???

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i suspect that n-track uses a lot of native windows API calls…


I’m guessing there’s no doubt there. Mucho directx.

The wireless card should work, try googling to find the right driver module, if so, you may need to roll-yer-own kernel, or at least compile the module for your kernel.

here’s d-links driver links page: D-Link Linux driver page.

Looks like you’ll want prism2_plx for PCMCIA laptop…

Check to see if distro has the module already, if not…

You’ll also need your kernel sources, then patch the new driver files into the kernel tree, make xconfig; make modules; make modules_install, blah,blah you know the drill.

I have heard a lot of good reviews of YaST, I think it’s been around a while so it has matured nicely. The package mangler in Mandrake is very nice looking - but doesn’t work well at all. I just use command line stuff to install packages (apt-get) - it’s much easier.

Grub is current boot-loader for most distros at this point, I like it better than Lilo, it can boot pretty much anything, so it won’t interfere with Windows/OS2/BeOS/etc is you have a multiboot machine. Works pretty much the same as Lilo, but gives you a nifty menu of boot options.

Debian has Star and Open office, I’ve used Open Office a few times, pretty smooth, tries to make the transition from MS Office easy, looks good, works pretty much the same way - BUT NO ANNOYING LITTLE PAPER CLIP GUY! I have issues with paperclip boy…must control fists of death

Good to see another come to the light side…:smiley:

.-=gp=-.

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nerds is right. What language are you guys using?


We prefer “geeks” or “wonks” :D

.-=gp=-.

Yep, this is an ice-creame headache in the making. Thank goodness I only understood few things here…what I understood just got taken over by listening to “smooth jazz”.

Now I feel better.

Wow, you guys can really understand each other?

chiller

Quote (chutz @ July 15 2005,20:00)
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nerds is right. What language are you guys using?


We prefer “geeks” or “wonks” :D

.-=gp=-.

Oops! Sorry! :)

Even reading Hegel is easier than what you guys have written here.

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Good to see another come to the light side…:smiley:


now, i will confess that i am a MCP… don’t hate me… but i don’t consider OSS or proprietary better than the other, really… they’re all just tools with their own place in the world… i certainly have my beef with windows, just as with linux… in this case, i convinced my girlfriend to look into linux before shelling out hundreds to upgrade to xp… being a software developer, i can’t bring myself to use anything pirated, and linux is very attractive for it’s cost and it’s power…

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BUT NO ANNOYING LITTLE PAPER CLIP GUY! I have issues with paperclip boy…must control fists of death

yes, spammers and the paper clip guy are on “my list”… do you recall back in the late 90s that microsoft published a series of short videos making fun of the paper clip?..

thanks for the d-link link… although, i have to ensure that her dial-up is up and running first… i don’t have POTS at home, so i have to seek out a coffee shop just to test it… my girlfriend moved further away, and now it’s a 45 minute drive with no cell phone or broadband service… and this is less than 10 miles from atlanta!.. i didn’t realize these places still existed!..

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I have heard a lot of good reviews of YaST, I think it’s been around a while so it has matured nicely.


i’ll confirm those good reviews… although us purist nerds love the shell, yast has certainly made my view into the system much quicker and simpler…

yeah, i really like grub… after i image my laptop drive, i’m probably going to install another OS on my own laptop and investigate those audio apps you mentioned… ha!.. you said OS2!.. and BeOS!.. wow!.. i looked into BeOS when it was in its prime, but i believe it’s now defunct?..

and to those making fun of us - go to linuxiso.org and get a distro to try yourself!..

thanks,
isaac

Hrm, I gotta play with Debian a bit. Everyone seems to have their favorite distro. Talk a bit about RedHat’s weirdness. I thought it was POSIX compliant as well? The reason I ask is I have always used RedHat as it always had good docs (and folks had books on it) as well as being well supported. I suppose it is preferece to a point, but I am always curious as to what gets someone crazy over one distro versus another. Debian has their own RPM varient I believe. You gotta love the convenience of yum or an equivalent. I spent enough time running configure scripts and makes. (Heh, what a dope I am. I often end up getting the source RPMs which is about as much hassle as compiling.) I just don’t have the time to fool with every distro out there. If I can find something that does a significantly better job than RedHat, Knoppix, or OpenBSD, I might switch, but it has to be pretty dramatic. So far as I can tell, everything is more or less the same with a few tweaks on startup scripts here an dthere and packaging platforms… I mean, KDE, Gnome, OpenOffice etc. are the same thing more or less where ever you look. Fedora Core 4 has been great so far. I just wish IPTables was as powerful as PF… Anyone know of a good OpenBSD/Linux hybrid out there? Or an easy way to encorporate QoS into Linux and IPTables?


And yeah, Grub rocks. I kind accidentally blew away the kernel the other day on a box. (Tried to compile a new kernel on a box with 32MB of RAM just to see if it could be done. Err, it can’t even at init 1 with everything shut down that can be shut down…) Gotta love grub for saving your butt when you do stupid stuff.

as for lindows… wasn’t that the OS that walmart was using on their budget priced machines?.. i believe i recall something about that…

and now i’m having trouble with the modem… although suse recognizes it, and allowed me to setup a dial-up configuration, it won’t dial… weird/sucks… but i get to kick it around some more this evening…

the good news so far is that my girlfriend has reported positively about the interface and office apps… i finally admitted that she is a guinea pig for me… i’m curious how the “normal” computer user can adjust to linux with kde/gnome… at the moment, we’re only running kde… if we can get her up and running on it, then it’s a positive outlook for the OS for other similar users…

isaac

wow, i just discovered that mandrake is now “mandriva”… wonder when that happened?.. the images over at linuxiso still point to mandrake… also, i just discovered that novell is releasing “free” editions well after the commercial “pro” editions… i wonder how many distros are adopting a model?.. are we finally beginning to see these companies discover that their idealism needs more funding?.. one of the most attractive features of linux to me is that it has been free for use, although i always realized that support was costly… now, though, it seems that red hat, novell, mandrake/mandriva are beginning to adopt a commercial model… seems they are offering different versions of the same release… and the general home user could be stuck with a bare version that doesn’t contain drivers or support…

what do you guys think about this?..

thanks,
isaac

I htink they need the free stuf out there. Just as Flavio needs an army of guinea pigs, so does the linux world. Certainly, if you need the support, pay for it. Otherwise, I am happy with Fedora and a 3 or 4 month old SuSE distro. That and so long as the open source community is out there, there will always be someone with a great and free distro.

Hey Issac,

Yes, I think Wal-Mart did market Linspire for a while on budget PC’s good idea in my opinion. M$ probably didn’t care too much for it. I know they sued Linspire a while ago to change their name from Lindows (Copyright infringment).

The modem may be a winmodem issue, basically the idea is all of the DSP is offloaded to the host processor to make the modem cheap. There are several projects afoot to write the DSP code for these compatible with linux. Quite a few are working at this point. If you are unlucky enough to be stuck with the “Super Double Lucky Happy Modem-blaster 9000” or other generic you may have to break out the magnifier and find out which chip is used (The ching-wa, ding-chong or the wang-chung :laugh: ) “Everybody Wang-chung tonight?”.

BeOS is still alive, albeit not as BeOS anymore, there are about 4 or 5 different variants of Be that have all taken other names, some have gone open source - it was good work, it would be a shame to see it go to waste.

I’m note sure whats up with Mandriva, I’ve not poked at it enough to know it very well. I know that many of the Linux vendors are trying to squeeze a buck out of it. Red Hat went to selling support, Novell is embedding into off-the-shelf solution boxes thus making $$ on the hardware. The nice thing is that the kernel and drivers are not copyrightable, they are still GPL, as is XFree86, Gnome, Kde, et al. So it would be near impossible to sell a high-end version, most of what you’d pay for is the support, you DO want to chat with Sanjay don’t you? As for support, the Linux forums are…well…almost as good as this one :slight_smile:

Red Hat’s wierdness, for some reason, the engineers at Red Hat wanted to distinguish themselves from other distros, they moved logs from /var/log (unix standard) to /etc/log/ (/etc/ is supposed to be config stuff). /home/ became /users/, and some other stuff that I’ve forgotten. The last Red Hat I ran was RH4.2. When I told the unix admins at work that I’d installed Red Hat they wouldn’t talk to me for three days.

I like sticking to *nix boxes that are just like the HP-UX/Sun/Trunix/etc… at work (less to remember).

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now, i will confess that i am a MCP… don’t hate me…

I couldn’t hate you for having to make a living. I have to suffer with WinXP on my PC at work, although I run CygwinX and Gnome, so no one can tell it’s really a Windoze box. And I have two windoze boxes at home, running n-track 3.3 and 4.0.5 respectively. I’ve tried running ntrack on a linux box, and wouldn’t you know it - it won’t work :frowning: even with Cedega…

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short videos making fun of the paper clip?..


Wish I had seen that…we run OfficeXP at work, it runs from a network registry, so every time I start an Office program, there’s the little paperclip guy mocking me, he knows how much i despise his cuteness, and he taunts me because he knows i can’t get my hands through the monitor to throttle him…:laugh:

be well…

.-=gp=-.

yeah, it’s a winmodem alright… lucent modem at that… this is the first time i’ve attempted to configure a modem, as all of my previous experiences have been with some static connection… i retrieved the drivers for it, and everything looked ok until i tried to initiate a dial… then pppd kept reporting that there is some “bad option” in the config file… i didn’t want to force my girlfriend to wait any longer, so i just restored her back to windows… nonetheless, she said that she really liked it, but needed to be able to use a dialup…

i finally found suse 9.3 downloads and am retrieving them at this moment… i plan to rebuild my own laptop… again…

as for *nix machines… i miss sparc!.. and yeah, i recall the strange things from red hat… from the purists side, it’s hated… and some online and book info informs the reader to look for things that are in some other place in red hat - incredibly annoying…

i thought walmart had a good idea, as well… a problem that i’ve seen is that the person looking to buy a computer on the cheap will have no clue how to handle the OS… even though i’m no linux pro, if i couldn’t get my girlfriend up and running what would the common user do when they encounter a problem?.. i don’t think this is necessarily the fault of the linux community, though… hardware vendors MUST get involved… as i recall the yamaha soundcards being a headache a couple of years ago, these stupid winmodems are doing that now…

yes, yes… DEATH TO CLIPPY!!!

isaac

I htink those cheapo PCs running KDe or whatever are great for very basic users. if all you need is to browse the web, check e-mail, and write a letter here and there… they are perfect. The problem is the intermediate user who wants to tweak a bit and get overwhelmed. If you are okay using the machine as-is out of the box, they are probably ideal. At this point they need to be looked at more as an applicance than a PC that one tweaks to their own wants and needs.