Guitar tuners/feature suggestion

anyone try these?

My father in law brought over a Peterson StroboFlip tuner. I used it on the regular setting, nothing amazing, other than I found the strobe a bit harder to deal with than a simple meter. But then we retuned the guitar with the “sweetener” setting, and it pitched the lower strings down a tad, and the higher ones just a little, and it was like playing a different guitar. I’ve never really been exited by tuners. This thing is cool. I want one.

But wouldn’t the “sweetener” idea be pretty easy to implement in n-Track’s tuner? It’s a matter of getting a tuning that takes into account the variations in pitch that come with pressing the string down to fret it - a greater problem for some string types and sizes than others.

Peterson’s website is here:

http://www.petersontuners.com/index.cfm?category=37

Anyway, it would be a very cool feature, if the n-Track tuner could do something like this. Or - at least make it possible for us to define our own values and save them for tuning purposes. (the StroboFlip does this as well - and has sweetener tunings for 12 string - I REALLY want that - and dobro, and some others…and it has various temperments, although I did not notice if it had Carlos Alpha, e.g…but all easy to implement, I would guess…but what do I know?).

just googled for guitar software tuners and found this one -

http://www.aptuner.com/cgi-bin/aptuner/apmain.html

it shows my Qwik Time crystal controlled metronome and 440hz generator to be off by .01.1hz that accurate measuring by any standards - has a range of tuning options and a nice needle type display –

Dr J

Thanks for the heads-up on that one DrJ.

I have the AudioPhonics AP Tuner 1.02 on my desktop. Its been there for years, certainly when I had Win98, and possibly when I had Win95, and it’s probably one of the most used icons there. But I’ve now downloaded and installed the latest version, and I’m looking forward to experimenting with the different temperaments now available.

thanks again,

Giz

PS. (just looked at the new AP tuner menu)

Anyone know if Stretch Tuning is meaningful on electric guitars?

I guess that for only 4 octaves it’s not worth worrying about, and perhaps there’s not enough high amplitude harmonics either. but I’m not real sure.

So, I reckon I’d better experiment and find out. :)

Giz

Thing is, the “sweetener” tunings on the StroboFlip are really astonishingly good - someone really figured out what makes my acoustic sound like it sings. It’s not just in tune, it sounds more musical. Weird. I’d like to replicate that with a software tuner.

Go try one, tell me what you think.

which came first the “sweetner” or “unison” ? -

unison is used on synth synths to give a sweeter more melodic (and fatter) sound by detuning the oscillilators one down slightly one up slightly - this is the same practice used to create CHORUS effects, chorus may also have a left/right channel delay added -

Dr J

The Peterson would be nice for setting intonation!


(DR Jackrabbit @ Aug. 15 2007,01:05)
QUOTE
which came first the "sweetner" or "unison" ? -

unison is used on synth synths to give a sweeter more melodic (and fatter) sound by detuning the oscillilators one down slightly one up slightly - this is the same practice used to create CHORUS effects, chorus may also have a left/right channel delay added -

Dr J

This is not what the sweetener setting is on the tuner, however - they figured out the pitch values for the strings, to compensate for intonation problems due to having to stretch the string when fretting, that sort of thing. So it's not unison like a synth. I suspect that some element of the beating that comes from slight detunings must play a role, however, in various strings' overtones, if that makes sense.

perfect sense, in fact i bet there are loads on guitarists all tunibg away like mad to see if they can emulate the “sweetner” effect without the Peterson -

its a very interesting concept you have raised here -

Dr J

OOhhhhhhhhhhhh at $200 it outta be “sweet” :(

Use a good chromatic tuner and then use your ears… save yourself 200 bux!

Tuner envy… I’d like to have a Peterson Strobe myself… for setting up guitars… on stage I’d still use a cheap floor tuner and my ear balls. You know… kick the 200 denari tuner across the stage… arrrrggghhh! I couldn’t deal with that.

D

Eyup!

Google “The Guild of American Luthiers” and look for an article called "Power Tuning"
It explains why ordinary methods of guitar tuning sound wrong when playing certain chords, and describes a tuning method using perfect intervals that minimises these effects.
I’m afraid you have to use your ears though :(

You’ll never go back to the “5th fret” method once you get the hang.

You can donate the $200 to my paypal account

Steve :D

I enjoyed the Luthier site: but it looks like you have to pay $48 to join and their index did not list anything about tuning a guitar -
If someone finds a site that can explain how to use a tuner (how much we need to go up or down on a string) please post it. My ears are not nearly as good as they once were.
The problems of tuning a guitar with a “traditional bridge” have been with us a long time. Figuring out the compensation as a single piece angled to compensate for the thickness of strings has never really worked. The B string is the worst (in my opinion). Some makers make the saddle with the B string set farther from the nut. Fiddle players (and other fretless instrument players) can just move their finger a bit and with a good ear play in perfect tune. If you use a capo, how many of us have to adjust the low E? The adjustable electric guitar bridge has always looked like a good ldea to me (I don’t play an electric, so I can’t say how well it works.)
I’m with you when you say we need to have an electronic turner that can actually get a guitar really in tune.
One thing that can help is to tune to a piano. The Piano strings are tuned to compensate for the slight changes that sound needs to “sound” in perfect pitch. This works particularly well if you are tuning a twelve string.

For $80 you can get the software version called StroboSoft Deluxe PC/Mac.

The deluxe gives you the sweetner.

KF

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The adjustable electric guitar bridge has always looked like a good ldea to me (I don’t play an electric, so I can’t say how well it works.)


It works very well Bax, and the fact that the action is usually a lot lower on an electric means that you stretch the strings a lot less when fretting, and, you generally fret a lot lighter too which also helps.

But let’s be honest guys, there’s no such thing as perfect tuning, it’s mathematically impossible. And it’s far too easy to get yourself into mental feedback loop trying to get perfect tuning; that way lies insanity!

Anyway, 99.9% of the audience can’t tell, and don’t care, if you’re in tune or just incoherent. :)

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Anyway, 99.9% of the audience can’t tell, and don’t care, if you’re in tune or just incoherent.


NOT so spambot! Last Sunday after church, everyone came up to me and said “We noticed your B string was 2 cents flat.” Errr… wait… No, what they actually said was “Your playing ain’t worth 2 cents!” :p

D

Eyup!

Power Tuning - link to article

This is from that article, Beefy - damn, the things ya don’t know…:

[/QUOTE]Here is what all of this means to the guitarist: You must not, at any time, use harmonic tones at the 7th fret as a point of reference (skilled piano tuners could use them because they know how many beats to introduce between 4th and 5th). Harmonic tones at the 7th fret are pure 5ths, while in equal temperament each 5th must be lowered slightly. To tune by harmonics at the 7th fret (as occasionally ill-advised) will make the guitar sound entirely unacceptable on some chord forms. [QUOTE]

Thanks for pointout out the software option, King!

Thanks Beefy Steve: I printed the page and added it to my favorite sites.
Interesting about the comment about the piano harmonics, Tom S. Maybe the difference is that I used to tune my 12 string to a piano and found it worked well. I think all pianos have 3 strings for each note and I was told once that each was tuned a bit differently - maybe that is why I had good results with a 12 string being paired strings - been awhile since I had a real piano to work with, next chance I get I’ll give it a try again. I was taught to tune to the 5th fret harmonics; didn’t even know anyone used the 7th fret harmonics. As you said, wow, what you can learn. Thanks for the information.
bax