Hey… new song up on sounclick here
and need some feedback on a “grundgey” song. It’s called "Take A Stand With Me"
Background:
I’ve had this song laying around for 6 years…, and never really could get what I was going after… do you ever have that problem?
It has a longish introduction… the idea was to create a mood of ‘sadness,’ and once established, follow it with a mood of ‘determined resolve.’
That said, I’m not sure it plays out that way to the casual listener…
It’s not a finished product, but it’s as close as I’ve gotten to this point.
I did receive a comment that it sounded “pieced together” — any thoughts on that?
All the best,
Jonathan Wilson
Testament (the band)
I wouldn’t say it was pieced together. I like the guitars, not crazy about the hi-hat sound. I think the song has promise, but I really think you should put much more aggression in the vocals, the singer can afford to open up and let rip with this.
Keep at it, it’s worth working at;
Ian
I agree w/ the comments about the vocals… I can’t project a song very well - in fact - this vocal effort is actually unique in that it seems to be in tune for the most part… lol
The lead vocalist has been sick, then out of town, then quit the band altogether, lol… so we do what we can w/ the personnel available at the moment. We quickly found an excellent replacement - but he’s out of town too.
The drums sound a bit tame for this song. I want to “spice” them up w/ more fills, etc.
About the vox - sounds like you could do a lou reed with them if you wanted an alternative to an agressive sound. Sing way down in your chest, really loose up in your throat, totally laid back, and have it warmly compressed so it’s really up front.
I think the beginning is cool. Nice flange or whatever. 
I like the Lou Reed idea, but my main complaint with the vocals is they are mixed so low it’s difficult to make out the lyrics, especially in the intro. In lo-fi, anyway. Musically, it rocks. As far as being pieced together, that comment probably came because of a perceived pause between parts. I think it all works well together.
I’m going to have to check this Lou Reed character out…
As far as my voice goes… well, I hate my voice… the Lord did not bless me with natural talent in this area, and I haven’t been committed to improving them. It’s been easier to say, “I can’t sing” than to try and get help to improve them.
The vocals here are a guide the the lead singer in the band (but he’s out of town). I figured I solicit some feedback from you guys first…
Yep, Lou Reed would work for the vocals, think Velvet Underground.
Iplan is that a phaser on the axe? Sounds cool! Maybe separate the guitars a little on the fast part. I’m listening on phones and it sounds mono from 1:45 on. I know what yer gonna say and yer right headphones don’t give a great perspective.
Good job, keep at it!
Yaz
I’ve got them split 30 right 30 left… I might go 80/80… like you did on your blues jam - as it worked for you.
Normally, I pan one guitar hard left and the other hard right, but this time I doubled the bass guitar and panned far left and right (so it didn’t meddle w/ the kick)… which I think worked in this situation - as you can hear both clearly…
I’ll do that now and repost…
I’ve already made some changes:
1. Increased vocal level in intro
2. Pulled lead guitar solo back 3db (it was sticking out a bit)
3. Discovered that the compressor internal to the slide on the snare drum was at a 12-1 ratio, and was clipping like a wild bandit, and deleted that effect. (I really don’t like the default compressor - that can only be seen by clicking on the individual channel eq properties ---- sort of that out of site, out of mind thing…). Doing that really brought out the snare too - which makes the drums feel stronger in the song.
Thanks for the listen… check back in 20 min for the 80/80 change…
Quote:
Iplan is that a phaser on the axe?
At the beginning it's a flanger pedal and a delay pedal together with a lot of overdrive on the front end of a Laney tube amp.
I was fooling around w/ my pedal board - mixing and matching different things.
Anyway, I selected a Danelectro Daddy O (distortion), and the Boss Flanger and Boss Delay, then hit that G5 chord (that you hear at the beginning).
I held that note for a 4 count.... then hit the Eb chord (just like the intro on soundclick), and that became the immediate inspiration for the entire song....
I remember it so distinctly because all the hairs on the back of my neck and arms stood on end when I did it.
I was like, "Hey what's going on?!"
The lyrics came quickly (I thought, "What makes me really sad?") and the answer came in the lyrics nearly immediately (specifically "blown opportunities to help hurting people").
I thought I was off to the races with this idea, but the song sat on my desk "mocking" me for 6 years.... but I think I'm really close now.
alternatively to the lou reed theory, if you wanted to really open the vox up, go up an octave (if that’s doable, maybe even just for parts of it).
that will help the presence, too, because octave-higher vocals can really cut through a mix on a good mic.
or you can go geddy lee and go up thirty-six octaves (i could do that when i was 14, not anymore).
that will cut through the mix and any titanium alloy you have lying around.
the drums do sound kind of tame.
Fills may be the answer, maybe not.
A more bambastic sound would help, though hard to do if these are midi (which is what these sound like. are they?).
i must say, jonathan, your ability to lay ideas down on tape (so to speak) in a concrete and highly listenable way, as well as a more mature sense of composition, have progressed by leaps and bounds in a rather short time! 
these are getting better all the time.
keep up the great work!
Quote:
The drums do sound kind of tame.
Fills may be the answer, maybe not.
A more bambastic sound would help, though hard to do if these are midi (which is what these sound like. are they?).
I'm using the dk+ drums internal to nTrack (which is MIDI).
I don't know why they're coming off so lame.
They haven't always been this bad.
In fact, I think they sound great
on my song, "The God Of Wonder" (at www.sounclick.com/iplan)... but I've got questions on the drums.
Here are some:
Since these are midi samples, are they eq'd and compressed already?
It seems like the more I try to make them sound 'good' (w/ eq, compression, reverb, etc.) the worse they end up sounding....
I want my drums to sound like this --- any ideas?
Nine Lashes (listen to "THE FALL" and "One and All") - for a bunch of 20 year olds they sound really good.... I have to remember the 10 commandments when I listen to them.... "Thou shall not covet thy neighbors oxen, wife, or mixing skills."
lol
Seriously, maybe the solution to a better midi drum sound is better midi samples
FYI, DK+ allows you to input your own drum samples (eg:
you can put in your own snare, kick, high hat, etc.) - so getting better sounding stuff is theoritically possible.
- leading me to my next question.
Are any of you guys "pot and pan beaters" and if so, could you take some high quality recorded samples of your kits pieces parts and put them up on the web somewhere? Or, does anyone have high quality "real" drum kit samples (not loops - individual hits of all your stuff")they wouldn't mind posting for download on soundclick or something?
Drums can really "make" a song to - so it's a difficult area to have a weakness in.
I'm considering this guy:.
His name is Brian McRae, and he basically plays drums on your songs for a fee.
Anyone ever heard of him, or used a service like he provides?
Finally,
Quote:
i must say, jonathan, your ability to lay ideas down on tape (so to speak) in a concrete and highly listenable way, as well as a more mature sense of composition, have progressed by leaps and bounds in a rather short time!
these are getting better all the time.
keep up the great work!
Thanks man - I'm still just figuring out how to work the equipment at this point, but I've got to say that I'm really excited about the progress I feel like I'm making.
When I think back to where I was not that long ago, and now, it's kind of cool.
There are a lot of folks doing drum overdubs to click tracks these days. Basically, find one who fits your style and price, and try him or her out on one tune, adn then go from there.
Usually what they want is a click track, then a sub mix of the instruments and then a separate vocal track. They might also ask for some ideas about the drums, although generally you are hiring them for their musicality, so it often works best just to give an idea or two and let them do it.
The guy you’ve linked to sounds very good, and his style seems close to yours, at least that’s my first impression.
Now, I’m a big fan of the drummer from the Fartones…
The only downside to this method is that you usually end up with a song that is exactly the same tempo all the way through. There are ways around that, but it’s still very hard to get the full feeling of a band breathing together. Still, as the drummer from the Fartones proves quite nicely, a good drummer will get a groove going even to a mechanical click.
Better on the mix Iplan, not sure on the n drums, can you record one track at a time with them? Kick, snare, etc etc?