Health Care


If the the idea is for the Government to provide quality health care to the masses, why not just let business - especially small business write off the health care costs for their employees. This would remove a major obstacle
for them, so they could hire again, thus producing more revenue.
Now that the Government, indirectly inherits the financial responsibilty,
which is what they are going to do anyway, they can concentrate their
song and dance on the fraud and abuse that currently exists. This
lets business thrive and lets the ‘gov’s’ grandstand and get quality
photo op time for the cause. Win win.

I live in Canada, we have government health care. Waiting times for an MRI 8 months. Average wait time at a hospitals emergency room, 14 to 16 hours. Need an EKG try 10 months. Number of doctors on duty, in the emergency wards at the 3 major hospitals for a city of 1 million, 9. People die before they are seen, thats a fact of government run health care.


Paco for some dumb reason I thought that you lived in east L.A. :laugh:

So does Canada not believe in setting appointments? Or does everyone go in for a checkup on monday?

seven - employers already do write off their expenses related to employee health insurance benefits, don’t they? It used to be that way, I dunno if it’s changed.

Government run health care has pluses and minuses. Generally, in Canada, the basics are done very well - those things normally handled in a GP’s office are done and done well. Things that require a specialist are done poorly and/or have long wait times.

Canada has regulations designed to prevent a two-tiered system (public and private). This is probably a mistake. Although there are dangers associated with a two-tiered system, such a system would likely improve the availabilty of services requiring a specialist.

Business already can write off insurance and a number of other employee benefits.

Employee benefit programs. Employee benefit programs include the following.
-Accident and health plans.
-Adoption assistance.
-Cafeteria plans.
-Dependent care assistance.
-Educational assistance.
-Life insurance coverage.
-Welfare benefit funds.

You can generally deduct amounts you spend on employee benefit programs on the applicable line of your tax return. For example, if you provide dependent care by operating a dependent care facility for your employees, deduct your costs in whatever categories they fall (utilities, salaries, etc.).

Life insurance coverage. You cannot deduct the cost of life insurance coverage for you, an employee, or any person with a financial interest in your business, if you are directly or indirectly the beneficiary of the policy. See Regulations section 1.264-1 for more information.

another forum that i frequent tells about canadians coming to the states to get around the long waits at home. similar prob1em in the uk. is that how you see it in nova scotia, bill? :D

Well - that’s some good ifno. I was under the impression that small business was
being saddled with paying an increasing perctnage of health insurance.
So - there is no reason why a company should not provide health care insurance
to it’s employees. And this should not be a reason for a company cutting jobs.
It seems this part of the system works then. It’s just a question of providing for
those not working or not able to work. And finding a way to fund it without upsetting what does work. This would be the universal health care. Maybe a VAT tax on certain products that have a negative impact on health. And not just cigarettes and alcohol. Spread it around. That way everybody is contributing, even people with no insurance, when they buy certain products. Unfortunately, since the economy is not that healthy, maybe this issue should be tabeled for now, and concentrate on patching the economy. And bringing down the unemploymnet level and stabalizing the
markets. Then give the universal health care a serious go. Maybe next term.

No one really talks about the systemic problem in DC - insurance lobbyists more-or-less writing the health care laws so that there is no real competition in the market in fact.
Look at the profits of insurance companies as a percentage of gross over time - that’s the kicker here as far as I can tell.
The “gov’t option” that looks like what we’ll get is not a single player plan like Canada’s, so comparisons there are mostly not relevant (e.g. wait times won’t change under a gov’t option, it is not government health care).
The gov’t option is a way to reintroduce competition, to make the markets do what they are supposed to do.
It’s a way of taking what is sort of like price fixing from the insurance companies, who have had the laws written to favor them.

All you conservatives should actually really like the gov’t option, because the idea is to fix a market that has been distorted by government intrusion in it.

Incidentally, I think it is a cop-out; I still favor a single-payer plan.
But I understand what Obama et al are trying to do, and it seems to me that it might work.
It’s actually a very American solution - where a market is distorted for some reason, create a mechanism to make the market work that way it is supposed to; that is, create some mechanism to make sure that there is real, effective competition.
But i gather most folks don’t think that’s what’s going on.
From all the silliness about how the gov’t is going to kill old people, I have doubts that all that many are really paying attention to the proposals. ???

my sister-in-law is on medicare and needed surgery so they went back in THREE TIMES to squeeze all of the money out of the government. private insurance wouldn’t tolerate that.

Hi Gents:

This public Health is costing the Canadian Taxpayer more-and-more money each year for little if any improvements in the system … year-to-year…
If I remember, and BillClarke can pipe in here…
It started out as a provincial purchase tax on everything purchased over the counters at 2%…
2 cents on every dollar funded the health care system…
The governments made truckloads of money…

It was the biggest “Cash Cow” they ever invented…
It got so good that the tax went up to 5%…
then 6%
and so-on till now, in the province that I live in it’s at the rate of 13% on every dollar purchase of taxable goods and services… AND…
The government decides just what goods are taxable…
You see… ecentual goods are not taxable…
Why, for example, is heating fuel taxable ??
it’s different in every province across the Country…
Jump in here…

Let me say…
If you injure yourself on the job you are treated like Royalty with-in the health system…
However, if you find you need health care as a citizen, you are given a number…
as well, you are identified as to your income and profession and a number of other conditions that set you on a course to put you in the ground before you get any care…
I’ve seen it happen here in this province…
The obituaries are full of scenarios…

My tax dollar should be just as good as the tax dollar than a Member of Parliament’s tax dollar…
That is…
if he/she pays their taxes…

Two of the biggest “Cash Cows” our Governments (here in Canada) have today is, Setting and Taxing the price per litre of petroleum products and setting the taxes on tobacco products…
Can I add one more item ??

The other thing is controlling the exchange rate of the Loonie in the money markets…

In fact…
our Governments are so Socialistic and leaning toward the LeFt… That Private Enterprise is all but no-existant…
except for the capitalization and enterprise of the Friends of the Government(s)…

BillClarke ????
or any other Cannuck ????

Stand up for our Rights…
That’s what I think…

I feel sick… I need Health Care…


[EDIT] Don’t Get Me Goin… hehehe… Do I have to come over there ?

re TomS


All you conservatives should actually really like the gov’t option, because the idea is to fix a market that has been distorted by government intrusion in it.

Ouch ! Gov’t fixing Gov’t. That should work. :laugh:

Although, after a little digging - it seems that one of the probs, is that business
and self-employed can write off health care. In 2007 to the tune of 246 bil. or
something like that. I guess that $$$ has to come from somewhere.

Ouch ! Gov't fixing Gov't. That should work.

i don't see why not. all you have to do is look at how well mankind has managed nature and

uh oh

run for your lives

It’s not really gov’t fixing gov’t - it’s a gov’t solution for a problem caused by a systemic problem - the way in which money buys votes. If we reformed the lobbying process it’d have the same effect. But money is speech, the USSC says…in any case, I still favor a single payer plan.

I’d also argue that gov’t isn’t always the best to solve the problem, but it’s also not always the worst. And private corps are not always the best way, nor always the worst way. One thing about Americans - for most of our history we have not really been bound by ideology, but just did what seemed pragmatic at the time. Shouldn’t we approach this issue the same way? Blanket condemnations will almost certainly be wrong, at least partly… ???

How’s about a ‘medical loan’ program? Get that AIG braintrust cracking.
But seriously, Tom you are probably right. And breaking the griphold of
the entrenched ‘medical industrial complex’ is essential. But I think
even they see that what happened to the auto and bank industries is coming
their way.

Wow, seven, that’s a scary thought - what would cause the insurance comps to implode, though? Rather than lots of bad debt, they have lots of valuable customers, who pay in substantially more than the companies pay out.

This whole discussion about health care is a big joke to me. I have medicare and insurance and still can’t afford to pay the bills. what’s the freakin’ point?! It’s a joke! A politician wanting to be a historical figure on the backs of people who are hurting.

Might as well enjoy the joke it is!

“It all depends on who gets to be the tyrant.” Truer words never spoken.

Health care? Don’t make me laugh.

I’m one of a large group who earn too much to qualify for medicare, but don’t make enough to buy insurance. So I just “take two aspirin, and call myself in the morning”.

So come on Obama; we cheered ourselves silly when you got elected, so how about less yak and more action.

Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Aug. 02 2009, 1:30 PM)

This whole discussion about health care is a big joke to me. I have medicare and insurance and still can't afford to pay the bills. what's the freakin' point?! It's a joke! A politician wanting to be a historical figure on the backs of people who are hurting.

well, I thought your situation is exactly the point?