And that's why I didn't comment on the people Yaz, 'cos people is people.
You meet all kinds, everywhere, but there are regional differences. Who could describe the behaviour of your average big-hearted Mid-west farmer by talking about a typical New-Yorker?
And that's the same everywhere.
I was 18 (many, many years ago) and had been living in London for almost a year, and become accustomed to the cynical "dog eat dog" attitude of London, when I decided to return home for a vacation.
I struggled through the tube with my suitcases; at each ticket barrier I fought to get my suitcases through the turnstiles whilst a cold-face ticket guard looked on unhelpfully and demanded my ticket.
Hey, but that's London.
Then after a 12 hour bus trip I arrived in Glasgow at 4AM.
I didn't know where I was, so I asked a stranger where the bus station for the local buses was.
"Ach weel, it's a fair distance, but hang a wee minnit, and I'll drive yee over there son".
So, we got there, and the first bus wasn't till 8AM.
"Tach! that's a scunner! But nae bother, ma wifie will be cooking up ham and eggs noo, so yiv got time for a wee drappie o' bacon".
And that was it, bacon and eggs deliciously cooked by his wife, then he drove me afterwards to the bus station.
A total stranger, never saw him again, nor expected to.
I'd forgotten what people could be like.
And I've encountered the same type of behaviour in Germany, in the middle east, and in the USA.
(Mind you, I've met some real bastards too, everywhere! LOL)
So, as I said, people is people.
But the one thing I hate, is patriotism.
No, not the sort of patriotism that makes one proud of one's country and one's heritage, but the sort of patriotism that says:
"My country/people/culture is the best".
"God/Right is on our side".
"Other countries/peoples/cultures, are inferior, subhuman perhaps".
"So, we have the Right/Duty to make them like us"
"And if they won't change, kill the fuckers!".
I totally agree Ali, and for the record, “California is a planet of it’s own!” LOL
Ali has a way with words… I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Or am I just being lazy?
I only read the first page of this and it seems that you were focusing on the politics of America which suck but what countries politics don’t suck to a large degree. The question was how do other countries view AMERICANS. I’ve been across the pond a few times and I have been treated with great respect by the people of every country I visited…both my kids were foreign exchange students, one to Denmark and one to Belgium and of course i visited them there. I think the people of all countries respect each other as citizens of this space ship…when politics enters then we all go down rather quickly.
<deleted - Had second thoughts>
Yaz, you’re right about Cali! LOL
I have a brother-in-law north of SF who has very carefully planned his tactics for when the Martians arrive, (as if the buggers could get near for all the junk auto’s! LOL).
Another branch of her family, (the Progresso side, yep, the soup people), still reminisce about when they were the Micky Mouse Mafia! LOL
You’re completely correct Cruise, the question was, "How are Americans viewed…"
Well, as tourists; they’re loud-mouthed, objectionable, arrogant, overbearing…just like any other tourist.
Well, if your host spends all evening being a considerate host, or, if he spends the time farting and scratching his balls, it makes no difference, he’s still the host, and you’re the guest: His home, his rules.
So I still think the question was intended to mean, “How are Americans as a whole viewed abroad?”.
I’ve asked 7 people so far; just another 6 billion to go, then I can give the definitive answer.
Jhohan! Stop deleting your posts!
If you were in the pub, shoveling the craic, could you delete your comments?
So my fine laddie, sip your whiskey, say what you have to say, then be content with it, (till the painfully bright sobriety of the morning-after grabs your soul with claws of steel that is! LOL).
EDIT: (Sorry John, I just realised that that sounded patronising. So, sorry again, it really wasn’t meant that way ).
Patriotism? Ali, I think you defined nationalism, maybe more like jingoism.
As usual, intersting and humorous reading on the crapper once again. This place is much more entertaining than a book or newspaper, keep up the good work guys!
Now exuse me, as I wipe yet another tired cheek…tee hee.
Now if John could only piss some vinegar, and post his thoughts my dump would be complete!
|Quote (jeremysdemo @ Nov. 29 2004,17:34)|
|Now if John could only piss some vinegar, and post his thoughts my dump would be complete!|
But jeremy, you just looked so angelic in your avatar, I just couldn't bring myself to cause you any pain.
|Quote (jhonan @ Nov. 29 2004,18:28)|
|But jeremy, you just looked so angelic in your avatar, I just couldn't bring myself to cause you any pain.|
That's the look of a man who has just taken a good shit!
Speakin' of avatars, what ever happened to yours?
I thought you were an original member of the Blue Man Group,..tee hee..
There we are, re-instated. I just never got around to it after the last board crash.
I didn’t know Henry Rollins was a in Blue Man Group!
tee hee…just couldn’t resist. But seriously in that shade the resemblance is uncanny.
Yeah, you're probably right Bubba, and you can add Chauvinism to the list too.
But all those words seem to overlap, and/or have different meanings for different people (at different times).
But if patriotism only means "loving your country", then who can condemn that?
But, what is "my country"?
The people? Well, I don't know all of them, and many who I do know are far from lovable.
The physical geography? Well, the mountains and the lochs will still be there long after I, and all I believe in, are long dead.
The culture? The way of life? The history of the people? Yeah, some of it is lovable and admirable, but some of it sucks.
The Queen? Yeah, right! LOL
Well, thank god, the UK doesn't have a flag code nor any laws relating to it. So you can fly it proudly over your house, or use it to wipe your arse when the paper runs out.
But one thing I won't do, is die for it. (And except after a few wee whiskies, not too keen on killing for it either).
But, I am a patriot. I'm inordinately proud to be a Scot, and I love my country, (as long as I don't think too deeply about it, that is).
But, I'd like to paraphrase that wonderful writer, George MacDonald Frazer:
"The Scots refer to the English as 'The Auld Enemy', and the English think that means we relish fighting them.
But that of course is nonsense. Wars with the English and other nations are seen as mere interruptions; inconveniences that must be put up with till we can return to fight the real enemy, i.e., other Scots."
So, someone please tell me what "patriotism" actually means.
I’m not sure how this turned into a discussion on the definition of patriotism. But since it turned this way, let me make what will probably be an unpopular point. I believe that nationalistic pride is a terrible thing. I believe that defining yourself as part of this or that group does just the opposite of unite.
By dividing humans into smaller groups (black, white, gay, catholic, women, men…etc.) we lay the groundwork for stereotyping, dissent and bigotry. One group in a struggle to be better that the other group will find ways to make the other group (s) weak and in turn themselves stronger.
This is an insult to all people. You get an us VS them mentality. As long as we the people have this mind set, we wil never actually be we the people. This is also why we will never actually stop war or cure poverty because there is always one group trying to get ahead at the expense of another group.
Patriotism with it’s roots in nationalistic pride is a poison. I love this land as much or more than most people. Certainly far more than the pro-pollutioners. If Iraq invaded my country and attacked my family or neighbors, I would be there to defend them. But do I feel like I or anyone should die for morally bankrupt and greedy government officials? I don’t think so.
So here we are. In a country divided into groups. Each group labeling the other so that they can be in power. Each one pointing fingers at the other. It is so bad that we end up with extremists like Ali bin Goofoff spouting jibberish about nothing to put down everyone but himself. I, for one, am sick of it. There never will be a positive government with fear as it’s most productive commodity. We live in a time where dividing people into groups has become a pastime of businessmen. It is killing the human spirit and become the reason for war.
"imagine there’s no countries…"
yeah, just imagine…
|Quote (DrGuitar @ Nov. 30 2004,17:30)|
|extremists like Ali bin Goofoff spouting jibberish about nothing to put down everyone but himself. I, for one, am sick of it. There never will be a positive government with fear as it's most productive commodity. We live in a time where dividing people into groups has become a pastime of businessmen. It is killing the human spirit and become the reason for war.|
"imagine there's no countries..."
yeah, just imagine...
I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-Ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in Tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in Mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in Yoga
I don't believe in Kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me
Yoko and me
And that's reality.
The dream is over, What can I say?
The dream is over, Yesterday
I was the dreamweaver, But now I'm reborn.
I was the walrus, But now I'm John.
And so dear friends, You just have to carry on
The dream is over.
The dream is over ... grow up
Ali bin Goofoff
Looking through the bent backed tulips, To see how the other half live Mike ??
You respond in such a predictable way AbG.
Ya Know What????
100 years from now nobody will give a hearty crap!
And the war machine will roll on…
People will still starve to death…
Hemroids will still be a pain in the butt…
We will all be Vulcans or Klingons…
And Captain James T. Kirk still can’t SING!!!
Sorry 'bout that:D
|Quote (YazMiester @ Dec. 01 2004,19:00)|
|Ya Know What????|
100 years from now nobody will give a hearty crap!
I have to disagree,
At least I know my descendence will still be giving hearty craps! Although they may find more interesting things to read than this while they do it....LMAO.