How We Drive Our Jobs Away

By Fareed Zakaria

The most recent government action in American health care has made things much, much worse. The result: a fiscal black hole..

It’s unfair for companies to move their operations to other countries who subsidize health care. The US Federal government should affect this by positive policies which encourage companies to provide health care, or the government should provide it.

Fareed seems much better on TV than in print. I wasn’t really able to follow the connection he was trying to make. I looked at a couple of the other columns that were linked from this one and got the same impression about his editorial abilities.

Is he on TV?

The point he’s making in the article is simple: until we deal with the rising costs of health and getting it to everyone, that it will affect us in real ways, i.e., companies will move operations to other countries where they don’t have to pay health care. He does point out the solving the health care problem is not simple.

It’s interesting that it appears the US is reliant (as I understand it) on companies supplying medical to the population as part of an employment/wage package. Here, the goverment supplies it, unless you take out private health cover - and now the goverment is trying to get out of it due to the drain THAT causes on the coffers…

The REAL reason most of these companies are moving to Canada, Honduras, China, etc… is plain and simple corporate GREED. The ridiculously expensive cost of healthcare? Also driven by GREED. Not just the doctors and drug manufacturers but ordinary citizens who sue their doctor for 600 bagillion bucks because they did something stupid to themselves driving up insurance costs. Trading what we have now for government “sponsored” healthcare is just robbing Peter to pay Paul. I dunno how we are gonna get out of this mess.

If you do know how to fix it, run for office. I’ll vote for you!

TG

As President of the World, my first action is to make GUITARISTS the highest paying job in the universe!

Lawyers will be paid lower than garbage collectors.:stuck_out_tongue:
There will be no insurance, baby nothin’ in life is gauranteed!
War will be abolished, except in West Virginia.
Food will be free to all.
Everything I own will be bullet proof, somebody’s definately gonna try to take me out.

Employees could a) provide their own health care or b) pay higher taxes so the government can provide it or c) take a pay cut so their employer can provide it. If employees in the U.S. are willing to do none of the above, jobs will be exported. You can blame it partly on corporate greed, but workers in the U.S. have relatively high expectations for compensation and health care packages compared to other countries. The negotiation should probably be between management and labor to come up with some mutual compromises, because both sides probably appear greedy to each other.

I don’t think it’s completely greed, but it does have to do with competition and making money for investors.

However, it’s just not fair that Toyota only has to pay a couple of hundred $$$ for their employees health care but GM has to pay in the thousands. Clinton warned us what would happen if health care costs weren’t brought into control.

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote
You can blame it partly on corporate greed, but workers in the U.S. have relatively high expectations for compensation and health care packages compared to other countries.

Can you really prove this claim? I’m sorry but I don’t think expecting to get health care is a relatively high expectation. It’s companies like Wal Mart that are screwing the American employee and us as tax payers because someone pays for these people’s health care.

No - clearly the government has to fix the health care problem because individual companies, health care providers, drug companies & taxpayers are not going to be able to fix this problem.

However, you can be assured that the problem will NEVER get fixed under a Republican controlled government.
Quote (Mr Soul @ April 13 2005,11:54)
However, you can be assured that the problem will NEVER get fixed under a Republican controlled government.

Can you really prove this claim??
Can you really prove this claim? I'm sorry but I don't think expecting to get health care is a relatively high expectation.

Outside the defence forces, I don't know of any companies here that do have free/subsidised health/dental.
Can you really prove this claim??
No but I'm not stating it as fact, or at least I didn't intend to state it as fact.

Seriously, they've been in power for how many years now and it's not fixed.

You stated something as fact & I'd like to see you verify your claim, unless you're saying that it isn't fact or it's just your opinion (which is fine).
Quote (Mr Soul @ April 13 2005,16:00)
Can you really prove this claim??

No but I'm not stating it as fact, or at least I didn't intend to state it as fact.

Seriously, they've been in power for how many years now and it's not fixed.

You stated something as fact & I'd like to see you verify your claim, unless you're saying that it wasn't fact now.
Did you really disagree or are you just trying to engage in a semantic debate?? Evidently you think Americans have low wage expectations compared to the rest of the world?? I like how you quickly backtracked on something you so adamantly expressed.

Nice try but I stand by my statement - the Republicans have not & probably will not fix rising health care costs, people w/o health care, and companies leaving the US because of health care costs. This is my opinion but history seems to be supporting my claim. If you can prove me otherwise, please go ahead.

This is what you said & I quote:

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote
If employees in the U.S. are willing to do none of the above, jobs will be exported. You can blame it partly on corporate greed, but workers in the U.S. have relatively high expectations for compensation and health care packages compared to other countries.

What are the expectations that are too high? Please compare this to other countries who provide health care. Make your case.

I don’t think pissing and moaning about which party is in power shines any relevancy on the subject. We had eight years of Dems. Did they fix it? I am afraid that it will take the private sector working with the government to find an equitable solution. I’m also afraid it ain’t gonna happen in my lifetime.

I’m just jaded I guess from seeing so much corporate greed first-hand. The bigger the corporation, the worse it is. I’m a nameless, faceless worker-bee. Just a number on a ledger in accounting.

TG – #220

I don't think pissing and moaning about which party is in power shines any relevancy on the subject. We had eight years of Dems. Did they fix it?
Ahhh - where where you back then? Clinton tried to fix it. He tried to get universal health care plan in place. He also talked about the problem. Have you heard Bush talk about it?

Kerry also said he would get health care for all Americans a campaign issue.

Yes, but trying and doing are entirely different things right? I’m not dissing one side or the other here dude.

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote
it will take the private sector working with the government to find an equitable solution


Whatever party that may be does not matter. Until one side or the other steps up to the plate and crushes one into the cheap seats, it’s a strike-out. The Dems need to stop all their liberal, bleeding heart, whining and bleating just as much as the Repubs need to stop their chest thumping, holier-than-thou crowing. All you ever hear from those guys is “You suck!” “NO, YOU suck!” Until they pull together as a team, which we are paying them to do, the pooch is royally screwed.

#220 – Realist

**EDIT I just realized, YES I am dissing here. BOTH SIDES.
Quote (Mr Soul @ April 13 2005,16:16)
Nice try but I stand by my statement - the Republicans have not & probably will not fix rising health care costs, people w/o health care, and companies leaving the US because of health care costs. This is my opinion but history seems to be supporting my claim. If you can prove me otherwise, please go ahead.

This is what you said & I quote:

If employees in the U.S. are willing to do none of the above, jobs will be exported. You can blame it partly on corporate greed, but workers in the U.S. have relatively high expectations for compensation and health care packages compared to other countries.

What are the expectations that are too high? Please compare this to other countries who provide health care. Make your case.
You ARE engaging in a semantic debate. You conveniently changed the superlatives about your previous statment and then attributed a new one to me that wasn't used nor implied in my direct quote. Shame on you.

Try being a little more honest: if Americans don't have relatively high wage and benefit expectations, why are they not collectively willing to take the kind of wage cuts necessary to save their jobs from being exported? Also, Fareed didn't prove (nor try to prove) that health care was the only reason that some car production has been shifted to Canada. Did that story prove that government sponsored health care in the U.S. would have prevented GM from moving production?? I don't see the proof, so why would you demand it when you aren't providing it? (Funny too that Fareed didn't mention that production facilities have been in Canada for at least 40 years, so we're not talking about some total change in business practices).

Whatever - forget what I said. All I ever seem to have with you are semantic arguments because you never answer my questions.

This what Zakaria said:

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote
companies are shifting production out of the United States for one overwhelming reason: massive health-care costs.

Are you saying that he is lying here? Yes - I assume that he researched & knew what he was talking about when he wrote this article.

<!–QuoteBegin>
Quote
Did that story prove that government sponsored health care in the U.S. would have prevented GM from moving production??

Yes I would say that it did. He cited real numbers. Are you saying that he’s wrong and if so, PLEASE PROVE IT.

Now all that really matters is that they moved more of the operation out & real US citizens lost jobs. Perhaps you’re more knowledgable on this issue & you can tell us why.

It’s a no-brainer that US companies are faced with high health costs - that’s why Wal Mart doesn’t offer any.

<!–QuoteBegin>
Quote
Try being a little more honest: if Americans don’t have relatively high wage and benefit expectations, why are they not collectively willing to take the kind of wage cuts necessary to save their jobs from being exported?

What do you want Americans to do - cut their standard of living & end the middle class? Do you think Canadian’s standard of living is so much lower than ours that it made sense for GM to move there, because that’s what you are implying.

Your arguments are all over the place, i.e., all you are doing is refuting an article but providing no proof.

[quote=Mr Soul,April 13 2005,20:26][/quote]
<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote
<!–QuoteBegin>
Quote
companies are shifting production out of the United States for one overwhelming reason: massive health-care costs.

Are you saying that he is lying here? Yes - I assume that he researched & knew what he was talking about when he wrote this article.


I think it’s when I saw Fareed’s other commentary about cars getting 500 miles to the gallon and how he had to twist numbers to get to that conclusion was what made me suspicious of the accuracy of the health care numbers that he cites (and didn’t provide a source). So, no I don’t assume anything. It would have been simple enough to quote a company representative to confirm the figures and rationale for relocating production.