I disagree that education is the main ingredient to solve all these problems. It takes great leaders & progressive, independent thought to solve these problems. But it does take an educated electorate to elect the right people to solve the problems. America is not very good at doing that IMO.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ Sep. 29 2005,10:32) |
| America is not very good at doing that IMO. |
Because they lack education… Folks who dropped out of the 6th grade don’t vote the same way a person who has a masters in crop sciences might. You have to value education to vote based on someone with education. One of the quickest ways for one to value or not value education is based on their own level of education. Plus, there are very few great leaders who are illiterate. There are exceptions to every rule, but for the past 5 or 8000 years, the people who run the show are those with the knowledge. It may not be virtuos knowledge, but knowledge none the less. Wars are won with either superior strategy or technology. Both require knowledge.
You see a similar paradigm with time. Personally, there are many things I would rather pay someone to do to get it over with. Time is money to me. For someone else who makes less, their time can be seen as worth less. One hour to go out of my way to save 10 cents on a can of beans is not worth the time to me. To someone else with less, it might be. YOu see this similar scenario with education. The level of education really determines how one approaches or thinks about a problem.
Again, don’t get me wrong here. I am not saying we need a society of elite super nerds. Education is more than the 3 Rs. It is critical thought, the ability to think in a logical manner, and the drive to be curious and learn. I really believe those are skills and habits, not something innate in most average folks. Attitudes will change this probably nearly as much as schooling will. Progessive independant thought is the product of education. Writing a term paper is not so much an exercise in learning the content of the paper, but teaching the student how to reserach and think critially. All of these skills are what we need more of and not less of to progress as a society.
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| Progessive independant thought is the product of education. |
There are many educated Republicans that aren’t progressive - how do you explain that? John Roberts is extremely well educated but I wouldn’t describe him as progressive.
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| Again, don’t get me wrong here. I am not saying we need a society of elite super nerds. Education is more than the 3 Rs. It is critical thought, the ability to think in a logical manner, and the drive to be curious and learn. I really believe those are skills and habits, not something innate in most average folks. Attitudes will change this probably nearly as much as schooling will. Progessive independant thought is the product of education. Writing a term paper is not so much an exercise in learning the content of the paper, but teaching the student how to reserach and think critially. All of these skills are what we need more of and not less of to progress as a society. |
Oh man… that is sooo right on! Bubba is smokin’!
So many people don’t even understand the concept of logic and reasoning. They are pure emotional creatures. These are the ones who vote for Senator Studly Muffin because he is cute and visually/personably appealing. Not because he is well qualified and has a record of standing for important issues.
I can hear it now…
"What’s that you say TG? Touting logic and reason as a Christian? What about your religion and faith?"
What about it? I have no problem separating logic and reasoning with my faith/religious beliefs. That is why I don’t go around blowing up abortion clinics and such foolishness. Those fanatics who believe the mutual exclusivity of these things are the worlds biggest problem in my opinion. Get people to THINK and just see what happens.
TG
Bubba hit the nail on the head. All I have to do is look at my family.
That said:
Education solves ignorance. It does nothing to solve stupidity.
| Quote (gtr4him @ Sep. 29 2005,10:03) | ||
It’s also a guarantee that guys like that jerk-weed I had in high school keep their jobs until they retire. Maybe the situation is/was not as bad in other parts of the country, but here, man oh man are our school systems loaded up with good ol’ boy networks and free-loading nutcases. What’s the answer if not eliminate tenure? If I do a lousy job here, they will FIRE my butt! Regardless of whether I have been here ten days or ten years. If I were a teacher in our system, as long as I got past three years, I’m home free. Nothing short of a felony offense will cost me my job. I’m sorry… I just don’t understand? TG – also cynical Doc… |
Well, there are always other incentives to get people to do what they should do. In any case, tenure in most cases does not mean that an incompetent person is untouchable. What you describe may be an artifact of the network you mention and not tenure. In any case, we buy the innovations at the cost of a certain amount of deadwood and nutcases.
Hey, Bubba, are you a teacher?
| Quote (Mr Soul @ Sep. 29 2005,11:10) | ||
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There are many educated Republicans that aren’t progressive - how do you explain that? John Roberts is extremely well educated but I wouldn’t describe him as progressive. |
So what is his motivation? What are their thinking skills like? What is the true situation they are in? Are they the MBA who can’t send a letter FedEx? There will be an exception to every rule. If you look at the whole of academia, I think you will find th evast majority of the folks in it are thinking as you are referring to. If you had an educated populus, most of whom are educated and progessive thinkers, the block heads, though they have 50 letters at the end of their name, would be weeded out. I see education and critical thought as the intellectual equivalent to capitalism. Poor service and crappy products don’t fly just as poor logic and ignorant decisons don’t fly in the face of an educated and aware populus. People understand money much easier than thought. Money gets you fed and gets shiney cars. The benefits of sound thought aren’t as apparant for many.
However, in Roberts defense (I am no fan nor critic of him) I would rather an educated man I don’t agree with than an ignorant man. At least an educated man you can often times have a rational discussion with. Not everyone will come to the same conclusions, but at least they will have a frame work and method with which to meet these conclusions, and as a result, we can at least make an orderly movement forward rather than emotional and scattered one. Progressive, independant thought is not liberal thought nor conservative nor will it always meet with your concepts of utopia or your ajendas.
| Quote (TomS @ Sep. 29 2005,12:08) |
| Hey, Bubba, are you a teacher? |
Nope, just a nerd.
I have taught, but nothing in an institutional sense. I have done seminars on technical pursuits, but that is about it. (How to design DNS so it doesn’t suck…) Why do you ask?
I asked because I thought this insightful and totally correct comment was the sort of thing one would hear from a teacher:
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| Again, don’t get me wrong here. I am not saying we need a society of elite super nerds. Education is more than the 3 Rs. It is critical thought, the ability to think in a logical manner, and the drive to be curious and learn. I really believe those are skills and habits, not something innate in most average folks. Attitudes will change this probably nearly as much as schooling will. Progessive independant thought is the product of education. Writing a term paper is not so much an exercise in learning the content of the paper, but teaching the student how to reserach and think critially. All of these skills are what we need more of and not less of to progress as a society. |
| Quote (TomS @ Sep. 29 2005,14:02) |
| I asked because I thought this insightful and totally correct comment was the sort of thing one would hear from a teacher: Again, don't get me wrong here. I am not saying we need a society of elite super nerds. Education is more than the 3 Rs. It is critical thought, the ability to think in a logical manner, and the drive to be curious and learn. I really believe those are skills and habits, not something innate in most average folks. Attitudes will change this probably nearly as much as schooling will. Progessive independant thought is the product of education. Writing a term paper is not so much an exercise in learning the content of the paper, but teaching the student how to reserach and think critially. All of these skills are what we need more of and not less of to progress as a society. |
You might hear that from a REAL teacher. Certainly not from the buffoons I had in school.
Education solves ignorance. It does nothing to solve stupidity.
I like that one phoo!
TG