I've been looking

At this LogicTempoController

Hi n-Trackers:
It appears that several of the Board’s members are branching out and into drum creation utilities and applications. I’ve been looking for this link for most of today with no results until now…

Tempo Controller

There are plenty of you guys who are experts on MIDI controlling music and whatever is necessary to produce music and drum tracks …

However, I am looking for some of you to have a look at this utility and and give me your opinion on what this application can offer in the process of creating MIDI instrument and Drum tracks as applied to n-Track and n-Track users like you’ll find here on the Board. I know Flavio has a drum track creation software included with the later versions of n-Track and all… However, I have having difficulty getting this software to do what I want it to do… It is and I believe my ability to set it up and use it to do what I want it to do…

This application has the ability to take/remove some of the mechanical “Feel” out of Synth Drums. Or… that’s what I think it does…

Can any of you take a look at this page and decipher just what this program is all about?

Bill…

looks OK Bil, but i dont think it will be much use to you - and its expensive -

its best to get a few rounds under your belt before going for stuff like that, you already have all you need to produce very reasonable MIDI drum tracks in N -

its very esy to make HUMAN SOUNDING drum tracks, for a starter go here

http://www.partnersinrhyme.com/midi/Misc/index.shtml

download as many of these free MIDI files as you want, open N, click on Piano Roll icon, and import one of the files you have just downloaded -

on the screen you will see a lot of dots and lines, by using the zoom controls you can widen the image to make it easier to work with, then with the mouse just drag any MIDI note to a different position and see how it sounds when you playback, you can easily alter the grid size to alter the duration and space between beats - generally you only have to move 1 beat a fraction every few bars to make it sound more human - when you get the hang of it just delete the beats you dont want and then you can save it as a new file
but beware MIDI tracks cannot be saved as wave file without using a seperate file convertor, or using a program like Battery that uses MIDI note information to trigger drum loops that are already in wave formst -
once you get the feel using MIDI you can then move onto these sample based drum kits, but why bother spending a lot of money and having to learn a new program (which will not intregrate easily with N) when there are a load of free drum tracks in Wav format on the net, just download them, cut them up and re-arange to suit your needs -

if you want to spend money on a easy to use program that hits well above its weight, i can reccomend that you buy MAGIX Movie edit pro 11, (or later) Movie Edit pro is the same as Music Maker pro but with more features for little extra (all of which will come in handy if you want to maks a DVD) its not hard to learn and pulls some tricks that puts N to shame, HOVEVER the audio is not as hot as Ns, so what i do is lay down the tracks in Magix, save as wave file and import the tracks into N for intregration into full song - one great trick is to import half a dozen tracks and let Magix cut the tracks up and re-arange them into a new version, there are quite a few tempo styles for you to chose from - it also come with many free synths and LIVID which is a drum loop generator that is programed to sound like a REAL drummer is playing the loop for you, another real beauty which i miss in N is the ability to import a short loop and expand it into a loop of any length (saves hours of cut and paste when you want to make a loop longer) -

look at the Magix website for more info -

to avoid confusion, Music Editor pro also makes videos, MOVIE EDITOR PRO is a full feature DAW that has all the features of Music editor pro (it also makes videos) but has DVD authoring included for very little extra cost, apart from one extra tab they look practically identical) - you just wont believe how much top quailty product you get for so little money - if you dont want the video just kill the on screen monitor, DVD part wont interfere unless you tell it to do so -

Dr J

Hi Bill,

I’ve spent some time having a look at the site and watching the videos (they’re interesting but on your dial-up may be a bit painful).

It seems that this is a clever bit of software that detects the tempo that a live musician is playing at and then generates an appropriate midi sync signal to other midi devices. The demos on the site appear to control Ableton Live.

This is sort of a cousin to Jamstix but without any of the sound generation capabilities that JS has. In otherwords you still need to create/program your loops etc and have something else (ie harware or software midi module) to play them.

The demos all use a single loop that speeds up and slows down in time with real musicians (guitar, guitar synth and drums). I’d like to know how it would work with longer loops or sequences.

It does not appear to modify the velocity (volume) of the loops or the “feel”, so as a solution to the “mechanical drums syndrome” I would say it’s not going to help. As a tool for live playing, then yes, maybe it has a place.


X
.
.

further to above

if you can get your hands on an old Casio Keyboard (OK i know they are BIG by modern standards) say one of the 6XX range, they have an onboard 6 track recorder with which you can record all manor of drums just by playing them on the kbd, you can preview the reording (essential to see if track suffers from the dreaded drum phasing effect) then record the output to N and save as a wave file -
with two PCs (which you have) you can use one PC loaded with a MIDI file playing back through the casio by a MIDI link (where it is dead easy to change the drum kit as you go along, if you want you can use a MIDI drum track to play another instrument or vise versa) and record the output from the casio into the other PC -
some of the Casio auto accompliments (used sparingly) are not that bad and the casio will track tempo changes in a MIDI file automatically, can sound quite professional when you get the hang of it - soft of like a hardware Band in a box -

Dr J

Thanks for the replies so far guys:
I think I’ve got the n-Track utility to work when it first appeared in one of the versions/builds… It seemed to behave and do just what I thought it would do… But, I was finishing up with another project (lame excuse) at the time and I put my ideas of using it on the “Back Burner”. Then, when I fired it up I found I was unable to create the atmosphere necessary to get it and myself on the same page. I have projects of real and synth drums that I want to replace the individual drum tracks with samples of kicks, snares, toms, and hats, and all… I have the samples that I want to use to replace these tracks… I just can’t get n-Track to record-and-trigger the replacement tracks of the samples I want on the new tracks… I think I’m missing something in the process of reaching the end product. I stand corrected, but I think I have to use the track I already have to “Trigger” an “Armed” MIDI Track on the timeline so as to then import the samples to the MIDI recorded track… Am I thinking about this process correctly? Or, am I missing the whole point of the process? Maybe, you MIDI guys out there can "Step’ me through the procedure/process of re-creating this “Sampled Track” from an already created .wav file… that is on the timeline… Or… is this something that is impossible to create?

Bill…

Further to this:
For example’s sake… Lets import a snare track onto a New Timeline…

From this track I want to create a track that contains a sample of a snare… I want to use the .wav file/track to trigger the VST plug/utility to make the sample’d track to replace or to use in conjunction with the snare track that’s already on the timeline…

Am I heading down the right path?

Bill…

the snare drum track has to be a MIDI file -

you can do this now and get a vast range of different sounding snares using N Track drums -
import MIDI file into N then add new instrument channel/N track drums - ight click on MIDI track and select output to N track drums - press play - you can change everything in realtime (i havnt jammed up N using N track drums, so far) -

if you want to use samples then you have to use Battery, Reason, Jamstix etc and there is no guarantee that they will import any samples that you already have -

samples on their own cannot trigger MIDI notes, MIDI notes can trigger samples but only with the right software -

Dr J

Quote (woxnerw @ Dec. 28 2006,14:37)
Further to this:
For example's sake.. Lets import a snare track onto a New Timeline..

From this track I want to create a track that contains a sample of a snare.. I want to use the .wav file/track to trigger the VST plug/utility to make the sample'd track to replace or to use in conjunction with the snare track that's already on the timeline..

Am I heading down the right path?

Bill..

Bill,

I've done this using gates and drum trigger plugs (there are a couple of drum trigger plugs I've used but I can't remember the names right now - not at my DAW).

What you have to do is put the drum trigger (and gate) plugs on the snare wav track. The output of the drum triggers is usually midi which you can then use to trigger a sample using one of the free sample player plugs.

This is a bit fiddly but works fine for snare and kick tracks.

You could, of course, just buy Drumagog. :-)

X
.
.

Just done a bit of googling trying to remember what the triggers I used were called… Found this relatively new plugin on KVRAudio…

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/2155.html

From what I can tell it is a drum trigger AND sampler built into one plugin. It’s free/donationware.

In my experience it’s important to work with the filters and thresholds in the triggers which is where a gate can come in handy to clear out the spill/rubbish before it gets to the trigger plugin.

Might help.

HAVE A LOOK AT THIS - FREE -

http://www.majken.se/index.p…temid=9

its called GRIZZLY it is a sample based drum machine - just downloaded it - has a cell pattern and each cell can hold one sample (takes any wave file) and can be played from MIDI kbd - as it is sample based it should record OK during mixdown -

you still need a base MIDI file to trigger the samples - it appears in the add new instrument channel (VST) list -

bit slow compared to N track drums, also imports Ntrack drum samples (if you know where to find them) which makes me think that N track drums could import other samples (say from a sample CD) will look into that, keep you posted

Dr J

Hi X and Doc:
Drumagog, is where I was headed, and I hoped that Santa would come up with a link for Christmas. However, he didn’t see fit to bestow unto me, the download link for it… I’ve used the demo of it till it ran out… In fact, it was pretty new when I downloaded and installed it on this machine…A couple of Up-Dates, now… That was some time ago… It appears that Drumagog would fill the void to perfection, for what I have in mind for it’s use. As well, I have the KVR trigger download utility… I think that was the application I intended to try as a second choice to Drumagog… This is the link to where I got the trigger

I know Flavio is laughing his face off at me… He knows exactly what I’m attempting to do and his Drum Application would work like a charm for what I want it to-do… I just haven’t figured it all out yet… That is, if he’s watching this topic…

I think I have downloaded that application you posted X…

Doc.:
The link you just posted is New-to-Me… I haven’t seen that one before, I think…

I really have to get into my download folder and re-organize all the links and .exe’s I have for this Drum replace’r software… It seems to be spread out, all over the place… a little bit here and a little bit there… Who knows what I got? I’m a link freak…

or it’s somewhere on the Smart Electronic pages… I never went on their message Board to ask any questions… I don’t really know any questions to ask… Well… But… I’ve got a bunch of applications and samples downloaded… from those pages… It looked as though I was well under way to getting my ideas to “Float”… so-to-speak… But then… :O ???

[Quote]

In my experience it’s important to work with the filters and thresholds in the triggers which is where a gate can come in handy to clear out the spill/rubbish before it gets to the trigger plugin.

Might help.

For the experiment I’ll have some pretty “Clean” snare-and-kick tracks already prepared… in fact they have been EQ’d and gated to death… That’s probably why they sound like they do… In fact, I have the K-v-R trigger loaded into the VST/VSTi folder of n-Track… But, that’s as far as I’ve got… They reside very well together, with n-Track… no issues, that I can see…

What I can do is, post an mp3 of the snare track that I want to replace… Then you can convert it back to a .wav file and see if you can make some headway with it… on an n-Track timeline… Install any kind of a sample on the track just so I can hear the sample’d track when it’s transposed…

That’s if you can spare the time… I’ll understand if you can’t assume the task because of the time it could take…

I’m gonna set up the track here and see what headway I can create over the next day-or-so…

Bill…

Yeah, that’s one of the ones I’ve used Bill - KT DrumTrigger. It outputs MIDI which needs to be routed to a software sampler/one-shot trigger. IIRC it was a bit fiddly to get going in N but once done it was fine.

The link I found combines both aspects so you just need one plug. If I get time later I’ll give it a try.

AaHh… Thanks X:
Then it wasn’t my imagination… I was sure that the drum trigger worked… I couldn’t record the resultant energy that I heard… Drumagog worked without any prompting…

I’m pretty brutal on myself… I get impatient if something doesn’t work first time… I have more patience when I get involved with some one Else’s projects…

Bill…

I’m looking for a topic on trying to get v4 build 2099 to work on this setup I have here… I know I’ll find it…

However, I got v4 2099 and v5 2193 both working on this P-111 now… I’ve been working on this issue all morning now… and making great headway, I think so…

The “Understanding” of all this is what I gained this morning…

V4 will not operate with VST Rev. 2.0 or 2.2 series of VST plugins… Drumagog v4.09 and earlier versions will operate on all versions of n-Track… or at least the versions I have been using… which are build 2099 and up to build 2193… I guess that’s about the best justification there is for Drumagog for me, and the setup I have… However, expensive, it is…

So, I am learning that “Cross Platform” and “Operation” of audio utilities are very important to me and the setup I have here… Why n-Track v4 build 2099 created a “Close Exception” was because build 2099 does not work with Rev. 2 VST plugs… The VST Folder has all the VST plugs installed into it will continue to keep V4 build 2099 from working correctly on my setups… unless I am able to separate the VST folders from n-Track V4 and v5…

Has anyone been able to separate the VST folders form each install of n-Track?

I had another reply going on this thread that made much better sense, but I accidentally deleted it before I could get it posted…

This issue first developed when I purchased The Pro bundle of Kjerhaus VST plugs and found I couldn’t get n-Track v5 to operate in them… Then I discovered that n-track v4 would not run with those plugs installed in that VST folder…

[EDIT]
I forgot to add… Flavio and Torbin at Kjerhaus Audio worked on this rev.2 VST plugin issue for me and Flavio came up with an updated build that fixed this issue… I forget the build update number… This is not an issue to v5.xx and later, anymore… But, If Flavio could create a v4.2.1 build fix for this, I would be all smiles…
[End EDIT]

Thank you to “Two Great Programmers”, from me…

If there are other issues, they haven’t surfaced yet…

Bill…