My son convicted.
I have a 15 year old son at home with my wife and I. Feb 4, 2005 a 2inch blade pocket knife(collectors with an American Flag on it) was found in his backback in his unlockable locker at school. He got expuled for 1 full year(365days) and had to go to court today. The outcome, GUILTY of a 3rd degree felony.
This is a town of aprox 18,000 people and my family has been here since before 1878, including Wild Bill Cody and Debbie Reynolds(cousin). Many of my family have been in the service of our country and another of my sons heads back to AL HILLA Embasy in IRAQ tomorrow.
I will not welcome you to Bucyrus, Ohio for your own safety. It seems they have aquired a taste of the money coin " A gold coin with Greed on one side Lust on the other with Jealousy all around the edge. "
I am a man who embraces the power of Heavenly Father. I am also a man who will never come first, in this life or next. Can someone explain to me as to why somebody put a 9’ black tar mark on the curbside of my roof?
If push has come to shove, I will now step aside and let gravity help all who test me to follow through with their motions(right over the edge).
I now guess I won’t be getting a collectable American Flag pocket knife for this Fathers Day or next.
I will appreciate any words of prayer, wisdom or sarcasm that you would be willing to offer this Deaf-Dumb-and Blind Guy. I may have been born stupid, but I wasn’t born yesterday. I feel payday coming soon.
Brian Ralph Mead
(life is like a box of chocolates, and I #### well better get a chocolate)
Brian,
I have no words of wisdom for you, only that I think this is assinine, the zero-tolerance attitude of schools has become a greater burden than a benefit. I feel for you son. If there is any silver lining to this, at least his record will be erased when he turns 18.
These people really think they are helping, although these rules are too easy to misapply. My son is only 5 and starts public school this year, I am very conflicted about this. What education can I expect him to get?
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| I may have been born stupid |
Something about your writing says otherwise.
“Another lone soul screaming in the wilderness of idiocy and hypocracy”
You’re not alone…Hang in there, like water things have a way of attaining equilibrium.
.-=gp=-.
Wow that’s kinda sad…and says where our system is heading.
I was caught several times in my youth with knives by the police no less…and as long as they were shorter than my palm they let me go!
Arkansas/ Cali./ Tennesee/ Penn./
I would say, for the sake of your good family name, if you have the money, APPEAL IT!
This is not an illegal knife in any state far as I can tell. Make them prove otherwise. This is LUDICRIC! as Tyson would say!
I guess according to there laws George Washington was a criminal as well he did like to widdle I’ve heard! 
My prayers are with you,
take care
keep shinin’
jerm
Sounds crazy to me. Unless you told me that your son had a serious record of previous violence or crime, I don’t get it. I bet I could find 1000 items in any school that could be as or more dangerous than that knife. Pens, pencils…jeez do they have forks and knives for serving school lunches any more. Darnit, you can mess someone up with a ruler. Heck one kid I know got his head bashed in by another kid on the stone steps in front of my high school - no weapon but the building itself.
I do worry about violence in schools, I have seen some horrible things happen in school and on the streets but an honest “mistake” of carrying a tiny pocket knife has nothing to do with it.
OTOH there is a problem with even a tiny knife in the hands of a bad actor - if they have it razor sharp, they can really mess someone up very badly in just a flash. That is one reason why I think blade size laws, while helpful in some ways, are still of limited use.
Hope you find some reasonable path for an appeal.
Peace,
TrackGrrrl
You are obviously very upset, but you need to ask yourself: is is just possible that your son actually did something that was wrong? A knife is a weapon. Weapons do not belong in school. He knew this. Additionally, if he brought one to school, it might be as much your fault as a parent as much as it is his, for failing to teaching him not to do this sort of thing. I don’t see anywhere where you say that this was an accident, and it would be hard to believe that it was. This is is backpack for school; weapons don’t accidentally end up in school backpacks. As a parent with kids in schools where there have regularly been problems with weapons, I have no problem with the outcome. Your family’s service record and history, and your personal faith are irrelevant; they don’t place you above the law. What matters is that he brought a weapon to school. You as a parent ought not appologize for the action - that sends the wrong message to your son. Rather, you ought to guide your son to act in lawful ways. Take responsibility, and he will too.
I would have avoided commenting, but others here seem to have missed the point. Obviously the tar mark on your house was wrong. But I don’t see how greed has anything to do with the outcome.
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| My son is only 5 and starts public school this year, I am very conflicted about this. What education can I expect him to get? |
my degree is in education, and i actually taught in a government school… fortunately, i have a skill set that allowed me to leave that scene quickly and enter the private sector… i strongly encourage you to avoid allowing the government to educate your child…
i also had a student that was expelled for having a weapon on campus… he was a great kid who fell victim to the nonsense that is “no tolerance”… he was 17 and owned his own landscaping business… a security guard noticed a small knife in his truck that was left in view… he was expelled without question and forced into an alternative school…
“no tolerance” should be translated into “we’re not willing to make a decision, so we’re just going to screw everyone”…
i would encourage you to fight this, except that i’ve seen what will (most likely) happen… the school will continue to find fault in your son, and refuse to consider his record at all… that’s the government way… it’s a very sad case, indeed… find a private school and research for scholarships if needed…
isaac
Isaac, why do you say that it is nonsense? The policy is designed to let kids know what their parents are apparently not telling them - violence is not an alternative. If you can come up with a good way to distinguish the kids who won’t use the weapons from those who will, then the law is not needed. But you know that is impossible. Zero tolerance is the only solution.
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| i strongly encourage you to avoid allowing the government to educate your child |
That’s the sort of attitude that is behind the decline in support for public education. The rich leave, the poor get screwed, and the country is less safe and propserous as a result. Public schools made this country, and it is positively unAmerican and unpatirotic not to support them.
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| and it is positively unAmerican and unpatirotic not to support them |
a laughable comment at the very least… to suggest that anyone is lacking in patriotism for a dissenting voice/opinion is “unAmerican” in it’s own right…
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| The policy is designed to let kids know what their parents are apparently not telling them - violence is not an alternative |
if the parents are telling their children that weapons and violence are bad, then the government school should not interfere?.. i agree that chaotic violence is indeed a bad thing… i certainly wouldn’t encourage anyone to initiate any type of chaotic violence… however, these cases should be considered on a per case basis… brianmead’s son may have simply been wanting to show off his knife to his friends, something that i did myself as a kid… a more practical approach would be to consider this child’s background when issuing such a verdict… the “no tolerance” nonsense has done little more than lead to the assumption that all children are equally and unquestionably bad seeds… it’s a matter of the administration not wanting to take responsibility in these matters… it’s far easier and quicker to simply say “get the #### out”, than to take time to review as in a court of law… these administrators are simply lazy…
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| That’s the sort of attitude that is behind the decline in support for [government] education. |
wonderful!.. i certainly hope this continues!.. remember that i am a certified educator, and have worked in the field… and i will never allow my children to be educated by the buffoons with whom i once worked…
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| The rich leave, the poor get screwed, and the country is less safe and propserous as a result. |
c’mon tom, i expected more from you than this type of rhetoric…
isaac
Well, isaac, the only part where I was engaging in a bit of jocularity was the unamerican comment. Re: the poor get screwed, I meant hat literally, because that is what has happened. The idea of public education was to help produce effective fellow citizens (education is a necessary condition for that) and to prevent segregation of elite wealthy and working class (with the added benefit that it brought all people together to make sure the schools worked). class segregation has produced good private schools and underfunded public schools.
Zero toelrance is necessary precisely because a case by case approach is not workable.
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…the only part where I was engaging in a bit of jocularity was the unamerican comment. |
i should have assumed as much!
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| Zero toelrance is necessary precisely because a case by case approach is not workable. |
would you apply such an “intolerable” view to all things or only schools?.. how is it that the schools which i attended for years were capable of hiring administrators willing to make decisions based upon the individual, and apply fair and appropriate consequence?.. have administrators lost the will/ability to consider each individual’s purpose for incidents?..
government education is a topic that gets me quite red… i’ve seen the sobering side of it… i get angry every time i see an incredibly beautiful building and discover that it’s a school… the millions of our tax dollars that are spent on making a school aesthetically appealing could be better spent on more qualified personnel and supplies…
i certainly don’t feel that all government schools should be closed, because they are, at the moment, necessary… my argument is simply that (in general), the government does a poor job of educating people… hence my decision that my children will either be home-schooled or placed in a well-reviewed private academy… sadly, many people feel that they just drop their kid off at the local school house, and they are magically “educated”… you would be appalled to learn how difficult it is to get parents interested in their child’s education…
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| …to prevent segregation of elite wealthy and working class |
methinks that this is only wishful thinking on your part
…isaac
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| my degree is in education, and i actually taught in a government school |
What’s a government school? Do you mean a public school or something else? If you mean a public school, then i agree with TomS statements.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ June 21 2005,15:55) |
| my degree is in education, and i actually taught in a government school |
What's a government school? Do you mean a public school or something else? If you mean a public school, then i agree with TomS statements.
wow. just wow.
isaac
isaac, I suspect you have never seen the schools in Flint. Not exactly beautiful. In any case, money spent on kids is nearly always a good thing IMHO. They are innocent, and you know what happens when the first years are bad. We get less productive, less respnsible citizens, with lower quality of life, lower economic expectations, and higher incidence of crime.
My wife and I are very involved in our kids’ school. We are on a bunch of committees, and have spent a lot of time in the classrooms. That’s what makes a good school work. I totally agree with the comment about parents who don’t realize that they have to do more than just drop the kid off at school. It takes a community to raise a child, after all.
BTW, Mr. Soul and I make an unbeatable liberal tag team, so WATCH OUT.
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| it’s a matter of the administration not wanting to take responsibility in these matters… it’s far easier and quicker to simply say “get the #### out”, than to take time to review as in a court of law… these administrators are simply lazy… |
Some are just lazy. That much is true. ALL of them FEAR lawsuits though. That is THE biggest problem with school officials and their lack of willingness to discipline students in a JUST manner. They’re scared to do it. If a woman can win millions from McDonalds because she was stupid enough to spill hot coffee in her own lap, just imagine how much money a crazy-@ss judge would award some family because a teacher looked at their kid cross-eyed while disciplining him/her?
There is no common sense left anymore and people refuse to accept personal responsibility. It is always SOMEONE ELSE’S FAULT!
Should this boy be expelled from school for a whole freakin’ YEAR because he had a little pocket-knife in his backpack? Well let’s see… any history of violence? Let me talk to some of his peers and fellow class-mates. What? Oh, it is a gift for dad and you forgot to take it out of your backpack? Well, let’s call your dad and he can pick it up for you here OK?
Result: One hours time by a teacher or counselor reviewing the “case” versus a child being expelled for a year and carrying all the “baggage” that goes with it.
I know which is the right answer. If you don’t agree… sue me!
TG
PS If you take the “sue me” option… remember, you can’t get blood out of a turnip.
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| My wife and I are very involved in our kids’ school. We are on a bunch of committees, and have spent a lot of time in the classrooms. |
you should be commended for this!.. while teaching, it was near impossible to even get a parent on the phone… and just try getting them to come in for some meeting… i was an idealist whose hopes were firmly crushed when i experienced these things… however, parents such as yourself were very much respected…
no, i have not seen flint schools… but when you do see a new government school being built, pay close attention to the architecture… at what point can you say, “this is too much?”… would a building made from marble offer any more educational advantage over the same building made from cinder blocks?.. if the school is going to be constructed anyway, i would prefer that a shift in funds happen in order to make it a more effective institution… but then again, people know that they can always scream for more more money in the future when it’s “for the children”…
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| It takes a community to raise a child, after all. |
i grew up in the sticks on farmland, no community of which to speak!.. maybe that’s why i’m so screwed up?..
it seems we’ve started an argument in someone else’s space… i’ll just offer my support to brian mead and hope that his current situation is quickly resolved in a fair manner…
isaac
My son had an incindent with the law 2 years ago. He was with two other boys and they had a handful of bottle-rockets of which on of the the boys had launched a couple of them out his bedroom window(not ours) towards an empty field. The police took all the boys to the police station and we had to go to court for that. The judge fined my boy $57 dollars and that was it, after my son explained to him he had been grounded to his room since the date of the incident(78days).
The pocket knife of record what given to him the weekend before by a friend and he forgot it was in his bookbag when he went to school. He left his bookbag in his locker for 3 days and then remember it was there the day another student turned him in for having one in his locker(what was that student doing in my sons bookbag?).
The thing that grabs me is this all happened 5 days before teacher conferences. At the last parent/teacher thingy I had ask of each teach to call me and let us know what I can do to help bring my childs education up to at least D’s. He does 96-105% on all his test but homework is a 60% judgement toward his passing grade. At the last meeting I had with his teachers his history teacher stepped outside the room and tossed his cookies when I was done with him.(and I never raised my voice). I still am awaiting a call from any of his teachers(are you watching the teachers in your city?). Now with him expuled, he is still a student of the system but his grades don’t count toward state funding. I had asked if they would release him from his expulsion so I could enroll him in a homeschooling program. They said in Feb of 2006. That meens they keep his state funding for the first half of next without having to acount for his grades.
TomS, please don’t get state biased toward me. Half of my family orginates from HONOR, MI…
Me being the brite guy I am, I have learned there is only one thing I can and need to teach. I teach how to learn!
Brian Ralph Mead
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and he’ll starve if he doesn’t learn how to find water with fish in it!
Brian-
I was a public school teacher for a while as well, and my advice is to keep going up the food chain. Your son made a mistake, and unfortunately, the blanket policies that schools have leave their hands tied when it comes to discretion and taking certain incidents on a case-by-case basis.
I will refrain from commenting on your parenting, as some have, because despite best efforts, kids do stupid things, even good kids.
If this was a building level decision-ie. principal, then go to the disctrict office, and be firm but polite that you would like a hearing to appeal the decision.
Most of the time, this is a committee that will review the case, and so be prepared to wait, but present your case as it stands. It was a small knife that was a gift and that your son forgot he had with him. be polite, wear nice clothes, get a couple of written ststements from parents and teachers regarding your son and his conduct.
above all else, if he is at another school or whatever, make sure he keeps his nose clean, no reason to have another issue to mitigate.
its not a perfect system, but the schools have to, at a certain level, make these policies to make things as fair as possible.
sorry about the backlash…people are dumb!
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| but when you do see a new government school being built, pay close attention to the architecture… at what point can you say, “this is too much?”… would a building made from marble offer any more educational advantage over the same building made from cinder blocks?.. |
I’m sorry Isaac but you really seem seriously off the wall to me. I grew up in a town a 5000, pretty rural and our “government” schools were just fine (they were made out of brick).
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| I grew up in a town a 5000… |
i’m talking about schools built within the last 80 years…
… you’ve obviously not seen the new schools being built… these places are not just another brick building… now they have large digital news signs, gymnasiums that compete with universities, lunchrooms like a sunday buffet, sundials, etc…
warning, assumption ahead… of course you understand my point, you’re simply refusing to acknowledge it because of your want for governmetal control of education… marble vs. brick is a stretch, but the underlying point is that my tax dollars are, in my opinion, being spent in areas that do not necessarily facilitate an education…
i can’t wait to have children and not send them to government schools!..
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| I’m sorry Isaac but you really seem seriously off the wall to me. |
imagine how insane you appear to me!..
…isaac