Let's talk preamps...amp sims

Interesting discussion.
How can I sound like Eric Johnson w/o having to own 2 blackface Twins with JBL D-120 speakers in them, just to name one?!?!

Quote:

What I am looking for is for guitars, I thought I was looking for a pre-amp, but in that search amp sim came up.

Your quest is a noble one.
One that I have been on myself for quite sometime.
My solution to this problem is to use vintage amps but that’s not always a feasible solution for everyone.

IMO - it’s worth experimenting with preamps & software.

The lead guitarist in my old band, who often plays on my CD’s, actually gave me a track that was made from the Line 6 GuitarPort.
I was skeptical at first but you know, it didn’t sound half bad, so I actually used it (listen to Restless Heart on my web site - lead at the end).

I hope this helps.
Quote:

I was skeptical at first but you know, it didn't sound half bad, so I actually used it


That's pretty much where I was Mike... until I tried FreeAmp 3 on a whim. There are truly some inspiring tones in that thing. Of course, you have to do some tweaking to get just what you want, but you have do that with an amp and mic setup too. You can record dry guitar and play around with the tone/amp sim until you get exactly what you want in the context of the entire mix.

It's worth the download for sure.

D

The Free Amp vst looks interesting. Have been trying demos of Guitar Rig 3, GTR, Amplitube 2 and Revalver. All are pretty decent, but seem to be better for post production rather than live (if that’s important). Have an unmastered demo using a preset on Guitar Rig for a guitar intro and guitar solos that sounded pretty convincing. Recorded the guitar dry and added GR3 as an effect during mixdown. Some of these sims are expensive, so will definitely check out Free Amp.

http://www.americandebtsales.com/music/ksdb.wild_angels.backer2.mp3

The only problem with using a plug in like that and cutting ‘dry’ is in my opinion performance suffers. There is no way in my experience that I play with the same feel dry that I do when I hear the effects live. You do open up a track to more flexibility when mixing etc. but for me I have to hear something in the phones that allows me to play best.

The real kick would be the ability to remove all latency and play with freeamp while recording - my set up is just not that fast.

Quote: (Mr Soul @ Jan. 31 2008, 10:09 AM)

I hope this helps.

Quote:

Interesting discussion. How can I sound like Eric Johnson w/o having to own 2 blackface Twins with JBL D-120 speakers in them, just to name one?!?!


I already know how to do that, TRASH has all sorts of amp models and sizes you can combine A-Z to create a software simulation for the tracks.....

But as Poppa pointed out I want to hear what I sound like amplified while playing/recording without the rest of the neighbors waking up to a screeching guitar at 2AM to get the right feel....plus I would like it to be low noise which NONE of my amp heads or stacks currently are! lol

I get hum of one, hiss of the other, and crackles sometimes on the knobs!

I still don't get it, I saw $20 devices that are simply pre-amps.... then theres all these amp sims with effects....

I still don't know the difference!
That is the question I need answered the most, is a J-pod or other simulator a preamp?

That is will it boost the signal for recording or just add various FX to a flat signal.

Hearing great things about these tube pre-amps with combined compressors....but many of them don't have the various sound FX in them... :whistle:

I'm thinking I need BOTH, a pre-amp to boost the signal and make it sound AMPLIFIED, like tube or what not, AND a amp sim, like the Jpod to create various FX....???

HELP!

keep shinin'

jerm :cool:
Quote: (Mark A @ Jan. 31 2008, 6:54 AM)

The Marshall pre that you linked to above will probably only give you a single sound with variations. The Pod/J-station will give you lots of emulations.

Ok that helps to know...I always though Marshalls stacks had a good sound..but quiet right...this is limited.

Quote:

Methinks you'll get the most satisfaction from a Pod or J-station type device.


Just passed one up on ebay for $54 (a Johnson J-Station amp modeler).....since I was undecided and unsure what if any difference there is in the two devices (PREAMP/AMP SIM)
I did not see a RCA S/PDIF out on the one I saw though....

but there will be another, and another that's the beauty of Ebay....(and other outlets)....

lot's of Line 6 Pod's up right now....

Thanks for tarrying with me twain.

keep shinin'

jerm :cool:
Quote: (Diogenes @ Jan. 31 2008, 10:29 AM)

Quote:

I was skeptical at first but you know, it didn't sound half bad, so I actually used it


That's pretty much where I was Mike... until I tried FreeAmp 3 on a whim. There are truly some inspiring tones in that thing. Of course, you have to do some tweaking to get just what you want, but you have do that with an amp and mic setup too. You can record dry guitar and play around with the tone/amp sim until you get exactly what you want in the context of the entire mix.

It's worth the download for sure.

D

Freeamp 3 VST is great. When compared to v.2 it seems easier to use. I actually played with the controls! On Freeamp 2 I have just used the presets.

Both plugs are keepers, BTW.

regards, Nils

Jerm,
After a little more reading, it appears that the amp-sims
have their own pre’s built in. So it’s no use double pre-
amping. But then again, your stuck with what ever REAL pre’s they
are using. (I’m referring to the hardware amp-sims like
SansAmp here http://www.tech21nyc.com/classic.html )
Note that there are several virtual pre’s to choose from.
There is also software modeling which let’s you choose param’s
for (i.e the pre-amp or gain) etc.
I assume your more inclined to go hardware, since the latency
of the software could be an issue.
I don’t know if the manufacturers are giving the specs of the
components in their amp-sims.

Quote: (jeremysdemo @ Jan. 31 2008, 10:28 PM)

I still don't get it, I saw $20 devices that are simply pre-amps.... then theres all these amp sims with effects....

Well, a really, really, simple rule of thumb.....

If it's got an XLR connector it's most likely a mic pre.

If it's *only* got 1/4" jacks it's a guitar pre/sim/emulator.

Buy a Pod or a J-station. :-)
Quote: (TomS @ Jan. 30 2008, 9:00 PM)

Quote: (Mark A @ Jan. 30 2008, 2:25 AM)

Let's form a production company, Mark.


Ha! Now there's a plan.
Quote: (jeremysdemo @ Jan. 31 2008, 11:04 PM)


I did not see a RCA S/PDIF out on the one I saw though....


Mine has one for sure, and as far as I'm aware there was only one model of J.

S/PDIf is mentioned in the blurb on the promo page for the J-station:

http://www.johnson-amp.com/jstation.htm


You can download the manual there too. Check it out.

The J-station is no longer in production so you may be better off getting a Pod. I dunno. I like my J-station.

Quote: (Mark A @ Feb. 01 2008, 2:19 AM)

S/PDIf is mentioned in the blurb on the promo page for the J-station:

http://www.johnson-amp.com/jstation.htm


You can download the manual there too. Check it out.

The J-station is no longer in production so you may be better off getting a Pod. I dunno. I like my J-station.

Yeah I don't know if amp sim is the way I want to go yet....

I mean isn't there something about syncing up these devices? latency issues?

Are there devices that are just amp emulators that do not involve software and computers?

I think I'm looking for something simple, a hardward device like maybe a rack FX AND a preamp/compressor?

I read too many reviews about downloading different sounds....and latency (with the POD)...don't think I want introduce another possible problem in the chain....

didn't they used to do this stuff another way before computers?
I don't trust computers and their processors, I want something that operates independently of them, no USB, no S/PDIF, just a 1/4 inch out into the mixing board.
The only clock I want to be bothered with is the click track inside the computer that I am listening to to record in real time...with no chance of latency.

I'm sorry guys for all the flip flopping I just want to make sure I get the right device.

keep shinin'

jerm :cool:

The answer is still the same; Pod or J-station - hardware boxes that emulates different amps and uses a 1/4" jack to send a line level signal wherever you want, be it puter, mixer, tumbler/drier, etc etc…

Quote:

tumbler/drier,


Obviously Teryeah has seen the "Rush in Rio" DVD? :)

D
Quote: (teryeah @ Feb. 01 2008, 3:58 PM)

The answer is still the same; Pod or J-station - hardware boxes that emulates different amps and uses a 1/4" jack to send a line level signal wherever you want, be it puter, mixer, tumbler/drier, etc etc...

OK, so I should get the same quality (stereo balanced out) using the 1/4 in. into the Soundcraft DI?

This will of course then be converted to 96z in the M-audio interface....

It seems what you and Mark are saying is that these amp sims are also pre-amps, that is they will do more than just add FX to a flat low direct signal, they will "boost" it to a higher level just as a pre-amp would.

I mean I was going to get a tube pre-amp to add warmth and a boost the DI signal of the guitar since I have plenty of various hardware pedals to do the sound FX I like but if these emulators do that, (and have tube "like" sounds) than there is no need for a secondary device.
No one ever did answer my question if that would be tube overkill with the Cad 8000.....and a tube pre-amp. ??? ???

Thanks again one and all for all the tips :)

keep shinin'

jerm :cool:

Well golldern it Woy - maybe ya ort to try one question at a time. This thread holds the record fer 'em I rectum.

My answer would be yes - it’s overkill all you need for that mike is phantom power.

Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Feb. 01 2008, 7:26 PM)

Well golldern it Woy - maybe ya ort to try one question at a time. This thread holds the record fer 'em I rectum.

My answer would be yes - it's overkill all you need for that mike is phantom power.

I would be happy getting just one answered! lol

I do have phantom power on the Soundcraft Compact 10.

Anyhow I think Mark was right about the Marshal DPR-1 as much as I like the Marshall sound that particular device picks up hum from other devices and it's pots get scratchy...which if I wanted to do that I would just use the Randall RB-120 head and Ampeg stack I have and mic it with a Shure 57!(not that the 57 would add any hum but the head shure does! tee hee

speaking of unanswered questions....heres a few more for the gurus.... anyone ever hear of a isolation cabinet?
anyone have experience with the TAD FANTA?

keep shinin'

jerm :cool:
Quote: (Diogenes @ Feb. 01 2008, 11:01 PM)

Quote:

tumbler/drier,


Obviously Teryeah has seen the "Rush in Rio" DVD? :)

D

I have!

Couldn't believe my eyes at first.
Quote: (jeremysdemo @ Feb. 02 2008, 1:08 AM)

It seems what you and Mark are saying is that these amp sims are also pre-amps, that is they will do more than just add FX to a flat low direct signal, they will "boost" it to a higher level just as a pre-amp would.

Yes.

You want one.

Go and buy one now.

Go on.

Stop reading this...fire up ebay.

You still here?

E-B-A-Y

:-)