Loop Timing Issue

Tough One to Describe

Hi All You n-Track Group/Board Members:

I’ve discovered this loop timing issue…
It could or might be a BUG…
I am searching for the correct communication skills to describe the issue…
I have taken a Print Screen of what I’d like to describe…
however, a video of the description would better describe the Timeline issue…
I don’t know how to do that so I’m stuck with attempting to do it by words…



I’ll start by posting the print screen.
Then I hope I can put it to words…





This is an “OLD” song…
it’s been on my hard drives for several years…
It was was recorded,mixed,and mastered starting back in version4-or-5 and has been imported in the latest builds of 6.0.2…
The print screen is from build2409 as of today…



This is not the issue…
Gents…
This song is posted on one of my pages as…
Here’s the link…
HurtMeMore


The print screen shows that I’ve set the timeline to loop the second intro note to just after the first snare “HIT”…



This is where my best communication skills begin…



I start the timeline by pressing “PLAY”…
The timeline begins to Roll…

The timeline scans the .npk file on the timeline…
The timeline is in perfect sync with the audio…
The timeline reaches the end of the Highlighted area of the .npk file…
BUT. because the “LOOP” is activated the timeline continues to “LOOP” the
audio which is expected it should do…



HOWEVER…
when the timeline begins the next pass OR any pass that the timeline continues to LOOP the timeline is now “OUT-OF-SYNC” with the audio on every pass the the timeline makes of the .npk file…







Can I better describe the ISSUE ????


The video display of the Looped Pass is forever out of sync on every looped pass till the stop button is pressed and the LOOP is started again…
ONLY till when the timeline is out-of-sync on the next pass AND each pass after that…
again till the stop button or space bar is pressed to stop the scan again…

Is there something in the Settings/Preferences that I need to adjust/reset to FIX this issue ???? OR is this something that is a BUG in the applications coding? OR something…

In the print screen you’ll see that the meters are displaying a waveform that has already passed the time line’s scan…








Bill…

p.s. It would be nice if someone could repeat this issue on your setups and confirm what I’m attempting to describe on an independent setup…

You described it well Bill. I have never been able to get n loop anything seamlessly. Each iteration gets farther and farther out of sync with audible glitches popping out at the start of the new pass. This was on V5 and V6 Beta.

D

Hi Bill; there are programs that do looping way better than n, such as the audacity freeware editor; you can import your original wav file, make the loop however long it needs to be then bring it back to n. dubious has it right - I don’t remember n ever doing loops, even back in version 1. I suspect it is something flav did not want to mess with, since there were and are so many freeware\shareware proggies specializing in loop production, i.e., fruityloops, etc…

'til next time
tony w

P.S.; you might try copying each iteration (since there are only three) on a seperate track, so each one starts at the right beat…

'til later
wynot

Hi Tony,

I posted about this before under my other “handle”. It really needs addressed in the worst way. Why? Gobs and gobs of guys/gals getting into computer based music production like to build songs with loops. Adding or modifying bits and pieces on the fly while a section loops. One or two whacks at it with n-Tracks current stutter problem will send them looking elsewhere. I know because guys I have sent to try the demo complained about it moved on. It needs fixed.

D

Quote: (Dubious @ Nov. 10 2008, 8:05 PM)

Hi Tony,

I posted about this before under my other "handle". It really needs addressed in the worst way. Why? Gobs and gobs of guys/gals getting into computer based music production like to build songs with loops. Adding or modifying bits and pieces on the fly while a section loops. One or two whacks at it with n-Tracks current stutter problem will send them looking elsewhere. I know because guys I have sent to try the demo complained about it moved on. It needs fixed.

D

I do not disagree, it would be a wonderful addition to n. I did want to point out that n (I think) was originally meant as an analog of a recording studio, and aimed at a different user than the many pure looping tools.

Also, I use a plugin (SFZ, there are others that do the same thing in different ways) to loop sound samples with midi, and it works great when I need something looped... It is late for me, so I forgot about that...

'til later;
tony

I found the topic I wanted to post this reply to…
I was unable to locate it this morning…



Anyway…
here’s the copy-and-paste of what I wanted to say…


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I’m back to post my thoughts on this issue…


This delay/latency in what is shown when “Looping” is seen as in-consistent on as many computers as there is out there…
Let’s say every machine is given the same/identical tracks to display and repro on a timeline…
The play button is pressed and timeline scans/streams the files from the hard drives…
The graphics cards are all different…
The hard drives are of different manufacture… different Main boards,.etc
The latency reported are gonna be close but not exactly the same…
NOW…
AN Area of the timeline is set to “LOOP”…
This is where I am unsure as to the “LOOPED” area of the timeline is not “Streamed”
It is reproduced from the RAM… I stand corrected on this…
BUT…
if the ram repro’s the timeline then…
as many sticks of RAM that is used there are then as many different latencies are introduced to the Graphics cards and monitor latencies… as well…



Maybe, some of you might be able to elaborate on this theory I have…
Could this be what we are seeing when we “LOOP” an area of the timeline ?


If it is…
What could be introduced as a corrective measure (in the preferences) with-in n-Track or any other multi-track Editor that could compensate for all the different hardware that these computer set-ups could possibly have ? OR…
What in your opinion would be necessary to FIX this LOOPING Issue. ?






Bill…

p.s.
EDIT…


This is not how I wrote the reply to this thread at 4:45 am this morning…
BUT…
it’s close…

[EDIT 2]

This is not the thread I wanted to post this response to…
However, all this thought has TO-DO with how we perceive n-Track to preform/behave on all our setups…
Sorry Gents…
BUT.
You all know the direction that this reply is taking us…

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[EDIT 3)

Thank you Tony for putting this in some context that just escaped me… It might be nice if some new code could could be written/introduced into a “String” where the LOOPED area of the timeline could be streamed from the Hard drive(s) on all passes IF-in-Fact that is what’s causing the LOOP Issue…

not tried 2411 yet - but re 2410 and looping -

1, the timeline is not keeping up with the looping - and - the loop timing gets worse the shorter the loop - on a 5 second loop all seemed well, so i shortened the loop to a single SNARE HIT and looped that - as drums are the best way to tell if there are ny errors on looping due to PHASING effect taking place when the hits are not together, i had cloned the track and set the loop on the lower one - there where times during the looping that it was defnately faulty -


but to be honest using that loop mentod is now superceded by this small set of actions -

1…insert track -
2…clone track -
3…highlight area to loop -
4…EDIT - copy (crtl C)
5…EDIT - paste (crtl V)
6…highlighed section is now a SEPERATE CLIP -
7…insert blank audio track
8…drag clip to new track -
9…NOW use the secret ingrediant to make it work _ EDIT - TRIM -
10…use centre righthand handle in clip and draw out as many repeats as you want -

11…use per part mute to vary loop -

looks a lot but only takes a second or two to do -

HAPPY LOOPING

M.R.

Quote: (Magic Rabbit @ Nov. 13 2008, 6:44 PM)

10..use centre righthand handle in clip and draw out as many repeats as you want -

Hey, that's so easy! Thanks!

Looping - as the way Acid and some other apps do for musical arrangement reasons, is not the same thing as repeat playback, which is all n-Tracks really does (never the less jumpy as it is). While it would be wonderful if n-Tracks repeated playback seamlessly (yes, it is a bug the way it is) you’d still have to go to another app if you want to do real loops, that is until Flavio actually adds that functionality. It’s getting there with the wonderful trick M. Rabbit is talking about.