Loudness War

Loudness War - Support Turn It UP!

AMEN!PREACH ON…

I’ve mentioned it here before I think… but I have tossed brand new CD’s because they were so smashed as to be too nerve wracking to enjoy a listen. Good artists too. One spin… smashed up production = trash can. I can’t stand it.

D

I am getting meself certified as a Turn Me Up mastering studio.

http://www.turnmeup.org

So much to do… sigh.

Good man.

there’s some other related videos there that go into it as well. that’s awesome. i’m glad i’m impervious :heart-break:

Though, I have a feeling I will have to throw that out the window at times. Them dumb kids…

Quote: (Bubbagump @ Dec. 19 2008, 11:03 AM)

Though, I have a feeling I will have to throw that out the window at times. Them dumb kids....

Give 'em a blind A/B test Bubba with the volume up on the BETTER mix to match the smashed mix. Educate them a bit. I used to think squashed to hades and back was somehow "better" too... until I wised up and REALLY started listening.

Even the head-banger, metal stuff sounds better with the dynamics left intact...

D

Ya gotta give 'em what they want D cause their friends will bring the CD back to the band and say "Dude - I thought you guys had these professionally done and they don’t sound like it man."

This is going to take at least two or three times longer to fix than it took to create the mess.

Quote:

This is going to take at least two or three times longer to fix than it took to create the mess.


Yeah, I know... Gotta start cluin' 'em in sooner or later though. They'll want the smashed mix for sure but hey, at least let 'em hear a good one.

D

It might take a REALLY long time.

One hugehugehuge issue is that much of what we do or are sort of forced to do is very dependent on what listeners expect something to sound like. (as in listening to mp3s with ear buds) If they have listened on only smashed stuff then that is what their ears will perceive is being correct, and pure loudness-volume, is not necessarily the only issue getting in the way.

For example, I like what some things sound like when heavily limited and smashed to bits. That does not mean everything should be, but it is a particular sound to go for, for artistic reasons. That is the right reason to do it, and it does not fit everything.

Doing it for pure playback volume is definitely not any reason to do it and it should not be done after the fact, after it leaves the artists or producers hands, as seems to be a common case unfortunately.

A better comparison would be for the video to play the smashed mix first, at the final volume level. Get your ears adjusted to that, then play the not-smashed version, so the initial part of the song before the drums kick in would be at the same volume. When the drum hit it would be much more dynamic.

Keep in mind that the mix in the video is a full mix, and that has a lot of hard limited instruments, which is typical of all pop mixes. I can really hear the snare slap the limiter in the non-squished mix. That is something limiters are for, and what I mean by liking that sound in some cases.

What Phoo said… Red Hot Chili Peppers are smashed to hell and for their low-fi sort of sound, it works… Then you get Muse who is really a pretty dynamic band and their last record was so smashed I thought it was in mono initially as the stereo image is completely collapsed.

I’ve been real interested in this issue, even if I don’t understand it entirely yet, I saw that video about a month ago and it does paint a perfect picture of the situation. Then I saw this post on the SC forum where a guy wrote, “I only use compression if it makes it sound better.” And a bell went off in my head because I had a few tracks where I compressed the hell out of one version and left the other as a straight mix, then normalized them until they "sounded, (percieved) as the same volume, (still the same song, same recording) and then listened to them side by side on a CD through my best speakers. It was wierd because for a few tunes the compression sounded better and on a few others it didn’t work at all. Here’s a tune where I never compressed it because no compression setting ever worked. And yes it is the quietest track I have on SC. If you’re curious:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7090570
part of the reason the compressors didn’t work is because of the prominent place of the drums in the mix, niether the n-track multiband nor the kjaerhus compressors helped at all so I just left it as it was. But then on some other tracks I squeezed the hell out of it and it sounded kicka**!!

Muse…don’t get me started. I absolutely LOVE the music. I absolutely HATE the sound they get on most songs. I can not imagine they are trying to sound like that all the time on virtually every song. My daughter turned me on to them. First thing I heard was on the radio. It was typical FM with and over-compressed FM broadcast on no too good car speakers. I bought the CD and found out that the CD sounds exactly the same as the FM broadcast, except that through better speakers than the car the frequency limiting and hard limiting is much more obvious and simply sounds wrong. It very well could be over-de-essing on the overall mix. Sounds like they mixed it for lower quality MP3 and headphones playback only (seriously). There is a very strong lower mid peak, and/or high end roll off, that takes away any sparkle. I am aware that the vocals and some other parts of the mixes are intentionally smashed and distorted for effect. That said, it’s not good to do that on every song, and I am sure that is not what they were going for…on every song.

Heh… I’ve been listening to mostly orchestral music lately. That may be telling something. :laugh:

D

You’re not alone on the orchestral music. I was restoring some Beethoven and Mozart stuff lately. But I grew up with orchestral music anyway, i.e. Western Classical, Romantic, some Baroque and Sousa-type marching music (as well as 6 years on tuba, Sousaphone, baritone, bass keyboard, as a school band geek). This loudness war is interesting and I hope a lot of pop/rock bands, production studios and especially the music listening consumer comprehends that it’s not all about a wall of sound, etc. I suppose some listeners like it “smashed” to blot out everything else but the music, sort of like the proverbial hands-over-ears “I’m not listening to you, lalala.”, lalala being the music. :p

Mozart, Beethoven… Those guys tickle and tease the ear just a bit and then uncork the big guns for a while and then lay back for a bit and… Keeps it interesting and the sounds are umm… “pure” ?? It’s not like a lot of today’s over smashed stuff at all where it’s 70 minutes of;

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

BBWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


:laugh:

D

PS Oh S$%T! I just realized I AM my father’s son… :p This sounds like something he would say…

Speakin’ of father’s sons - have you listened to Perry Como lately - my lord in heaven - phrasing and inflection twists and turns are freekin’ incredible. I listened to this with the kids tonight and thought - wow he took that melody and bent it every way he could.
Anyway "Old Guys Rock."

PS; Don’t even get me started on Nat King Cole

Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Dec. 19 2008, 11:04 PM)

Speakin' of father's sons - have you listened to Perry Como lately - my lord in heaven - phrasing and inflection twists and turns are freekin' incredible. I listened to this with the kids tonight and thought - wow he took that melody and bent it every way he could.
Anyway "Old Guys Rock."

PS; Don't even get me started on Nat King Cole

I was brought up on Nat King Cole and Jim Reeves. My dad was really p*$$
£d off when as a 15yr old I walked in and played "Deep Purple In Rock"

Dang, just how old are you old farts?

Perry Como? Nat King Cole? Jim Reeves?

Bengay, store bought teeth, depends . . .what else? :laugh:


25 is Zay :whistle: