Mastering with seperations

interesting read

came across this site - interesting, though not a totally new idea -

this site is link crazy so i have picked out three pages i found to be good -

main page -
http://www.johnvestman.com/separations.htm
then -
http://www.johnvestman.com/separations_tech.htm
and -
http://www.johnvestman.com/separations_chart.htm

Dr J

From the tech page you linked to:

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Another method is to assign your tracks to stereo or mono subgroups - and send those subgroups to the stereo output (digital and analog). Here’s some examples:

• All the drums and their related effects are panned and mixed in a normal stereo fashion and assigned (or sent) to a stereo subgroup. Assign this group to the stereo mix output. Individual tracks are not sent to the stereo mix - only the group output goes to the stereo buss.

• A bass subgroup including related effects is similarly sent to the stereo output.

• All guitars and/or rhythm instruments are assigned in stereo to a subgroup.

• Lead vocals w/ reverbs and effects have their own stereo group.

• Backup vocals, percussion, brass/effect and solos, etc. are assigned to a group.



I suspect many of us here use the groups function to do this - I have in a lot of cases. This does pretty much the same thing, doesn’t it?

???

Anyway, those are good pages, thanks very much for the link. Very interesting.

There was a thread on the TapeOp board about this guy. What he’s doing is blurring the line between mixing and mastering. Some people think it’s a good idea, some don’t.

I found the concepts he discusses to be very interesting because I master my own stuff. The nice thing about doing the whole process is that if I don’t like the way something sounds in the mastering phase I can go back to the mix and change it. When you hit your mix with a limiter, for example, it will change the sound of some of the instruments and alter the way the mix fits together. I can go back and make some changes, do a new mixdown, and hear the difference.

there is some good info, especially the Chart of Recommended Separations, to me it looks liks this is a system born out of desperation, as recording studios are closing down at a rapid rate, mastering houses are popping up like mushrooms, but where in the past a mastering house would be used to recieving quality work from PRO studios, the advent of the DAW opened recording to everyone and this includes those those only language is from the cretinatious period - you know those who only know two words “PRO TOOLS” (thats if they even know its two words) and having somrthing put through said DAW makes them some sort of Mesiah amongst their trogladite hangers on -

the greed of MAMMON being what it is what mastering house is going to reject work ? - at least this person is saying, OK i know that all i am going to get is rubbish but for thos who use this principal at least i can do something for them - and as such it is a worthy attempt of rationalisation -

like everything else this is only one persons idea, but it give a valuable insight into mastering and if a person follows the Chart of Recommended Separations and record their tracks as said, then re-inport the wave files into a new song for mastering rather than trying to master the normal way they may find that they are able to obtain a better finished product than before -

you cannot change “A” without altering the whole Alphabet - but if each track is a seperate “letter” then you keep the Alphabet intact, you just create a new dialect -

Dr J

Here’s where I reply to this topic again with what I’d like to see Flavio do with with adding "Mixdown-and-Rendering to Groups in the MIXDOWN area of n-Track… Groups have to appear in this area… By adding groups to the mixdown/rendering you can then audition several mixes to your final timeline and render the version you like best of the sections/groups to the end product.

For example… If you have your drum kit in a group you can create a rendered version of your kit several times… Then mute all the drum renders and audition the drum mix one-at-a-time with the rest of the groups in your “Stem-mix”…

There’s no “Rocket Science” here…

Was there Group Mixer Strips in v 1 of n-Track? No… was there Group Mixer Strips in v 2 ? I believe not… There was great response from the n-Trackers of the day when IT was added to that version/build…

But… after the addition of groups to the mixer screen there appeared no more development of the Group Mixer Strips… That’s too bad… because there is much development to the addition of Group Rendering once this gets added to the rendering process of n-Track…

Any n-Tracker who downplays this feature is Sort of Missing the Boat or the Idea of what this feature is capable of adding to the Mixdown/Rendering possibilities of In-the-Box mixdown sessions…

It’s nice to have your Magic Tracks in the folder on your hard drive(s)… But that only represents about 25-30% of the work required to complete your project. AND that part is only about 10% of the steps it takes to finish your project. That’s if you consider what it takes to get your project to the market place… maybe, even less than that…

I’m gonna say it… AND… some of you guys know me… This is a serious WANT for Me.

The people who are negative to Change… really need to Go to Pro Tools or Stienburg… or some other Multi-Track Editor… or maybe you should be in some “Turnkey” setup… like RADAR… working In-and-Out of the BOX… Cause that’s where you should be… IMHO…

Every time a topic like this comes up, you know I’m gonna jump onto it, with both feet…

Sorry… Flavio… and Guys…

Bill…

It’s too bad I don’t possess the ability to be able to write the necessary code strings into n-Track… to suite the the processes I’d like to be able to see-and-use in n-Track…



I would have had it added to v3.3… build 1516…

my definition of a group is a series of tracks that are controled by a single fader - so if in a song i had all tracks containing drums controlled by a single fader,if i wanted to mixdown just that group, i would just mute everything else and its done - if i wanted to mix down more than one group at the same time, then i would send each track in a group to a different output on my soundcard then mixdown to a single wave file per output (requires multi output soundcard) -

in the article mantioned above a group is called a seperation and how to mixdown a seperation is in the second link -

same landscape, different view -

http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?storycode=14158

Dr J

Hi Doc:
It’s not the same as… Doc… and Gents…

It would be the same if you used no plugs in the group’s mixer strip…

And no plugs in the group’s master out…

At mixdown time you are given the option to mix the Hi-Lited tracks with the Master Channel… or not… But mixing the group’s channels are not available… till the Group’s channels are shown in the mixdown window. Right now there is no combination the will allow this process, using the current timeline…

Bill…