how can I make it sound real
Right now, I am taking a drum midi file and importing it into n-track and then outputting it ot sfz with nskit soundfont, and it sounds good, but not great. When people listen to my song they always say the drums sound like “midi”. I tried adding effects (reverb, chorus, etc).
What else can I do to make the drum part sound more authentic?
It might help if you could post your song or the drum file; just to get a better idea of what is making it sound too mechanical. Was the midi file programmed by you? If you go into the piano roll, you might be able to vary the velocity settings for the drum beats; this would be one way you could try to “humanize” the beat. This will take a little work, but it should pay off in making the beats more natural.
It’s also possible that nskit isn’t the best soundfont for this particular drum track. I’ve found several different drumkit soundfonts and have used different ones for different songs, depending on the mood of the song.
Go to HammerSound, click on Sounds, then click on Soundfont Libraries, then click on Drumkits and Percussive Kits. You’ll find several pages of drumkit soundfonts, several that are free. Download as many of these as you can, and try them out in place of the Nskit soundfont. The Real Acoustic drums and the Tama drums are two that I have used before.
There would be some other ideas to try out, but it would really help to hear your drum track. HTH.
Yes i forgot to mention i have tried other soundfonts, not just ns-kit.
I guess I am asking too much. I want these midi drums to sound just like a real drummer being recorded live in a studio.
Help us help you. I asked a couple of other questions and gave you some other recommendations besides the soundfonts.
Just in general, it’s going to be a challenge to make any midi file sound exactly like a real drummer, but to know what the specific shortcomings are, we would need to hear what you have so far.
I think it’s John B who says his programmed drum tracks fool 90% of listeners. From my own experience, I agree. Both John and I use Fruity Loops - not midi, but programmed drums nethertheless.
In addition to what ksdb said,
Some thoughts:
Listen to drummers. Listen to the variations. Learn how to play “virtual drums”. Understand the grooves. This will take effort.
Examine other peoples programmed tracks. Figure out the good bits and the bad bits.
Vary the patterns… not always the same hi-hat volume, not always the same fill at the same point of the song.
Choose drum sounds that work with the song.
Notice that (most) drummers only have two legs and two arms and can hit a maximum of 4 things at one time.
Give the drum patterns dynamics through the song… a little louder on the chorus maybe… build at the end of the verse.
Listen to the level of the drums in commercial mixes. We all have a tendency to mix our drums too high.
Add “live” percussion to the finished track for a little realism.
HTH
Mark
A sequencer with “groove quantizing” function helps, too. instead of random variations, it changes the timings and velocities the way a real drummer plays.
nTS don’t have that function. I’ve used old Cakewalk win3.11 version until I got Cubase VST with the EMU 1820 soundcard. I edit, manipulate and groove quantize the drum tracks in Cubase, then import the stuff to nTS as .wave files.
Of course, this is of no help if the drum track doesn’t sound something like a real drummer to begin with. I use Band in a Box or Yamaha DD-5 pads. You can get good results with step editing, but you need to think like a drummer…
A friend of mine recorded his whole album using programmed beats (battery) and I’d say it’d fool about 95% of listeners. He and excellent programmer of drums BECAUSE he is an excellent drummer.
He told me he thinks left hand / right hand/ and velocities in everything he programs.
Think like a drummer is the best advice.
(Also you could go the other way and make them as obviously programmed as possible, using 808 hits etc… I’ve heard a lot of good rock or acoustic bands/singers use obviously programmed beats to good effect for 1 or 2 songs - see Early Day Miners, Denison Whitmer…)
I’m a drummer too, used to teach as well. I would always point out to my pupils the necessity of dynamics - not just through a tune, but with a bar as well - accents are very important at maintaining a groove: if you can program that right, most will be fooled. Pay attention to the hihat in particular. Don’t necessarily worry about fooling around with timings, tho’ this will of course help. For instance try setting a hihat for a bar of 4/4 like this:
| Code Sample |
| beat: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + Vlty: 100 50 75 50 95 50 75 50 |
| Code Sample |
| beat: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + Vlty: 50 100 50 75 50 95 50 75 |
| Code Sample |
| beat: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + Vlty: 100 50 60 95 60 50 75 50 |
Ghosting notes is a good one as well, but don’t overdo it. To do this try putting a snare hit with a velocity of about 25-30 on the last semiquaver of beat four (x:4:720), or two hits on the last two triplet semiquavers (x:4:800, x:4:880) with velocities of say 25 then 15. This is like a drummer letting the stick brush the surface for a small ruff before the next bar.
Actual velocities you’ll have to play with - since each sample set is different. Something may be superb on one kit, then horrendous on another (same with real drummers and real kits…!)
Listen to you favourite tunes and try to pick up what the drummer is doing. Don’t be afraid to count out loud to hammer exactly what is happening where. Write out some lines of 1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a and make a not of h/h,k,s and accents (often denoted by a ‘>’ above the note: using this kind of thing means that you can easily communicate a groove to a real drummer as the need arises).
To help with the sound, try using kjaerhus ‘Classic Chorus’ on the snare using the ‘Flanging snare’ preset, and turn the mix it so that it doesn’t dominate too much. This can help make a snare more alive. You can also use it on cymbals, again just lightly - it can help make hats and rides sound better.
Finally sfz doesn’t have multi-outs, so use a few of instances when you have the actual midi track sorted - a suggestion would be Kick, Snare, cymbals, toms: 4 instances. sfz has been written so that common samples are shared between instances, so 4 sfz’s doesn’t mean 4xns_kit!
Get the Midi done using one instance, then clone the track and remove unwanted notes for each one. Keep a copy of your original track, but mute it. When you make a change, update the other tracks again.
For myself, I use Loopazoid with a custom kit. It only has one velocity layer, but for me this isn’t a problem (I use two snare sounds depending on what hit is needed), but it has 4 stereo outs straight away…
In practice:
http://www.dsparsons.uklinux.net/11_04_DuncanParsons_ShesNotThere.mp3
http://www.dsparsons.uklinux.net/02_05_DuncanParsons_FFA.mp3
http://www.dsparsons.uklinux.net/03_05_DuncanParsons_SetMeFree.mp3
These are KvR contest entries, so are fairly lofi production (and vocals), but show what can be done with a little care. Everything is programmed by piano roll (apart from the vox), including the guitars.
HTH
DSP
One simple trick to make drum machine or midi patterns come alive is to add one or two “manually” played bits. For example you can construct a song from several patterns, verse, chorus, bridge etc., but then play fills and grace notes manually while recording. Then add some ride cymbal, crashes etc., again live/manually. It can also help a lot to play “live” tambourine and/or shaker. It means a few more tracks or overdubs but it makes the whole rhythm track sound “human”, even if the main kick and snare are always “in the pocket”.
TusterBuster 
I'm a drummer too, used to teach as well. I would always point out to my pupils the necessity of dynamics - not just through a tune, but with a bar as well - accents are very important at maintaining a groove: if you can program that right, most will be fooled. Pay attention to the hihat in particular. Don't necessarily worry about fooling around with timings, tho' this will of course help. For instance try setting a hihat for a bar of 4/4 like this:Code Sample
beat: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
Vlty: 100 50 75 50 95 50 75 50
This isn't a real world example, but more a chance for you to see what you can do. Leave the kick and snare as they are, but set the hit hat and listen. Now we'll move the accent on a quaver:Code Sample
beat: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
Vlty: 50 100 50 75 50 95 50 75
This emphasises the offbeat. Code Sample
beat: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
Vlty: 100 50 60 95 60 50 75 50
This will suggest a 3+3+2 grouping of quavers. And that's all just mucking about with hihat velocities. Do variations. Put some semiquavers in the end of a bar every so often, open hihats, etc.
Ghosting notes is a good one as well, but don't overdo it. To do this try putting a snare hit with a velocity of about 25-30 on the last semiquaver of beat four (x:4:720), or two hits on the last two triplet semiquavers (x:4:800, x:4:880) with velocities of say 25 then 15. This is like a drummer letting the stick brush the surface for a small ruff before the next bar.
This is good stuff and pretty much what I do - it's not as difficult as it looks. It's the little details that can add so much, ghost hits, pattern variants, etc.
Another thing I've often thought about but not managed to come up with anything useful with, is the idea of the kit reacting to itself. eg the kick drum may rattle the snare wires, one tom may cause another to resonate. Sometimes using discrete samples can seem so clinical!
Mark
beat: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
Vlty: 100 50 75 50 95 50 75 50
This isn't a real world example, but more a chance for you to see what you can do. Leave the kick and snare as they are, but set the hit hat and listen. Now we'll move the accent on a quaver:Code Sample
beat: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
Vlty: 50 100 50 75 50 95 50 75
This emphasises the offbeat. Code Sample
beat: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
Vlty: 100 50 60 95 60 50 75 50
This will suggest a 3+3+2 grouping of quavers. And that's all just mucking about with hihat velocities. Do variations. Put some semiquavers in the end of a bar every so often, open hihats, etc.
Ghosting notes is a good one as well, but don't overdo it. To do this try putting a snare hit with a velocity of about 25-30 on the last semiquaver of beat four (x:4:720), or two hits on the last two triplet semiquavers (x:4:800, x:4:880) with velocities of say 25 then 15. This is like a drummer letting the stick brush the surface for a small ruff before the next bar.
This is good stuff and pretty much what I do - it's not as difficult as it looks. It's the little details that can add so much, ghost hits, pattern variants, etc.
Another thing I've often thought about but not managed to come up with anything useful with, is the idea of the kit reacting to itself. eg the kick drum may rattle the snare wires, one tom may cause another to resonate. Sometimes using discrete samples can seem so clinical!
Mark
That’s where BFD and DKFH come in!
DSP
There are three pieces to making good MIDI drums…
* Velocity - make sure the velocities fit the groove and are not overly static.
* Multi layer samples - this ensures that all the work you did with the velocities actually changes the sound. Usualy, the more layers the better.
* Timing - overly stiff timing screams drum machine. Studio guys are human metronomes, but with their use of dynamics and playing around the beat in the pocket it keeps the drum machine sound from occuring.
One thing I’ve found on a lot of MIDI files and drum sequences that others have done is the “busy kick drum” syndrome. Since we haven’t heard your tracks, I don’t know if this is a problem for you. If you think it might be, try simplifying your patterns, especially the kick stuff. Make subtle variations between verses and choruses, but don’t get too busy. That is a surefire giveaway that it’s not a real pro studio drummer.
Don
Good point, most studio drummers are dumb butt simple on the kick. The kick is your basis to your grove and folks can’t bob their heads to some crazy 1/16th or 1/32nd base kick groove for any period of time.