Mix to CD volume

too low

This may have been addressed a million times. If so, sorry.
I have everything mixed down and the volume is as much as N can handle without clipping. Then, after I burn it, the CD volume on other sources is way too low.

To the Master Channel I usually add Classic EQ (full reset and then filter the very low and very high freqs), Classic Compressor set at the “Vocal Default” and the Classic Master Limiter at the “master CD” default to the master channel.

16 bit, @128, 44.1

Why does the volume disappear when I burn it to disk?

Thanks

cliff
:cool:

To put it bluntly, it’s because you aren’t hard limiting your mixes to heck and back. Rip a track from a CD and look at the wave.

Beginner Mastering Guides:

I particularly like Bob Katz’ book “Mastering Audio: The art and the science” Worth buying and keeping on the reference shelf…
http://www.amazon.com/Masteri…s=books

http://www.tweakheadz.com/mastering_your_audio.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/search?url=%2Fsearch&Subject=71

http://audiominds.com/mastering/

http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/news.ph…t_id=12

The only way I can get close to commercial CD volume is by mastering in Adobe Audition. Careful use of EQ and maybe multi-band compression to get the “shine” right… then as phoo said, apply the Hard-Limiter and smash the begeezus out of it. I usually end up backing off the limiter… I don’t like it too squashed and “in your face” sounding. Thus, mine are not quite as loud as commercial CD’s.

D

Quote (Diogenes @ Dec. 01 2006,17:43)
…as phoo said, apply the Hard-Limiter and smash the begeezus out of it.

ok…will do…

thanx

cliff
:cool:

Well, cause I said it doesn’t mean it’s a GOOD thing to do. :)

I think what phoo is trying to say in his humble way… is super squashed and “commercial CD” loud is not necessarily a GOOD thing. A lot of newer commercial stuff has almost no dynamics because of over compression and limiting to compete in the loudness wars. That’s why I said…

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote
I don’t like it too squashed and “in your face” sounding.


CD’s like that get on my nerves after about two songs…

D

Look around for a second hand, NEW if you can afford one ''LIVE" 1 to 1 (realtime) CD recorder - Fostex do a good one - the quality is excellent and with the meter display you can see EXACTLY what your levels are -

this way, again if you can afford it, you can put a rack mount compressor pre recorder, monitor through the recorder and burn your CD when you have it right -

Dr J

…after thinking about it some more…maybe i will just turn up the volume on my other sources.

cliff
:cool:

Hi Doc:
I’m not very far away from an Out-Board CD Recorder… What model is that Fostex one you talk about? If you got to ask what they’re worth you can’t afford one… :O ???

It’s a good time to assemble an outboard re-pro chain… including a hi-class compressor/limiter, EQ, and level matching set-up… If you can’t accurately record what you hear, what do you have?

Bill…

I good mastering limiter can knock down volume killing peaks in a way that doesn’t change the sound, or doesn’t change it much. Over limiting use can really squish the sound but that’s not what you are going for.

Another thing that can kill volume is unbalanced EQ. Usually that’s in the low end, and sometimes it’s subharmonics or lows that are so deep that can’t be “heard” through speakers. That’s where something like Har-Bar comes in handy. But even EQ that looks the same in Har-Bar can sound drastically different, so it’s not an end all tool.

Really it’s best to compare mixes to a commercial CD that is the same kind of mix you are going for. Listen for overall tone and EQ balance, but don’t worry about the volume. Make sure playback volume is matched when comparing. One the mix sounds similar to what you are comparing it to it’s time to open the mix in a wave editor and work on the peaks.

Getting a mix up to commercial CD mastered quality in both tone and volume is a pain. It’s better to go for tone and not worry about the volume.

Hi phoo and All:
That’s a nice post… Some of the later audio plugs and utilities I’ve bought lately include Har-Bal and a Mastering Limiter… They helped me come a long way toward getting my end product to where I’d like them to be… Using DAW based mixing, that is…

n-Track has always been and will continue to be the Editor that I use for streaming tracks from my hard drives… I see no issues in that department…

The bottle-neck I see that I have is the outdated audio hardware I continue to abuse myself with by hanging on to it while I try to get this “Trackers Block” behind me.

I was thinking that I might buy myself outta this dilemma…

I need some new audio hardware… or could it be that my days of tracking are winding down?

Bill…

Something that I do, that you might try. I use Acid Pro for multitracking. After I get the sound I want in Acid Pro, I set up my system so I have both Acid Pro and Ntrack running. Acid Pro runs through my outboard mixer which allows me to control volume, eq, etc. while the tracks are being played back from Acid Pro and recorded into Ntrack. This way if I want more volume I just push up the fader on my mixer.

When I first tried this, I was cocerned about running two apps at the same time and playing back and recording from one application to another on the same pc. But it has worked quite well and provides alot of flexibility in recording.

Getting things louder by turing up playback volume is one thing. Getting things louder by raising volume in the wave is another har bal of wax. :)

I’m working and experimenting away with these two plugs I bought over this last month… These plugs have sliced a big hole in my pocket… But if i can learn how to use them the way I think they can work I’ll be on-my-way to getting the end product that I think they can achieve…

http://www.har-bal.com/

http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/mpl-1.php

I’m beginning to understand that there’s more to it than that… But I’m getting there…

Bill…

[EDIT]
This project has been taking an excessively long time to get each track consistent between tracks and finished… I have posted two files of the same track… One dated in Nov. and the same one dated in Dec. and today for proofing… The latest file using a cloned track and two plugs… for processing the Sub-Bottom End. GBand and Kjearhus MPL-1 Pro Limiter then mixed… I may end up mixing more of the cloned track yet… We’ll see…

The SSS’s and PPP’s still need processing…

WhoEverFindsThis

So, if you don’t worry too much about squashing it to or beyond the max, what happens when your track is going to be played on the radio next to other artists tracks ?
Does the radio station have loudness leveling software to help the volume remain constant from track-to-track while on-air ?

Hi old dead wood:

This is an “Old Topic”… How did or could it have been brought forward from the previous Board Build ????


I remember and this was years ago and we were in the jingle business…
We would go into the radio stations and track the music for jingles…
That was the way it was done here, anyway…
There were no studios, except for what was done in the radio stations…



On the way home the jingles were played for us to hear on the way home…
One-or-two nights of hearing produced the player’s setup and mic placments…
Someone took notes and after that we all understood what was to be expected…



I guess they’re not done like that anymore…
Too Bad…
I can remember we did a lot of jingles, over the years… Remember, this was back in the '60’s…





Just-Like-That…



I guess radio stations aren’t radio stations like that anymore…










Bill…

Quote: (Guest @ Dec. 02 2006, 6:17 PM)

I good mastering limiter can knock down volume killing peaks in a way that doesn't change the sound, or doesn't change it much. Over limiting use can really squish the sound but that's not what you are going for.

Another thing that can kill volume is unbalanced EQ. Usually that's in the low end, and sometimes it's subharmonics or lows that are so deep that can't be "heard" through speakers. That's where something like Har-Bar comes in handy. But even EQ that looks the same in Har-Bar can sound drastically different, so it's not an end all tool.

Really it's best to compare mixes to a commercial CD that is the same kind of mix you are going for. Listen for overall tone and EQ balance, but don't worry about the volume. Make sure playback volume is matched when comparing. One the mix sounds similar to what you are comparing it to it's time to open the mix in a wave editor and work on the peaks.

Getting a mix up to commercial CD mastered quality in both tone and volume is a pain. It's better to go for tone and not worry about the volume.

Excellant point! Sub frequencies can kill a mix, you may not hear it, but the neighbors dog wishes you would do some low and high pass filtering.