Hey guys,
I am wanting to incorporate a live keyboard (mostly piano) sound into my live rig.
One thing I would like is a SMALL device, since some of my gigs are rather cramped half stages.
One thing I have noticed is smaller keyboard sounds are very cheezy.
SO, I was thinking of using a M AUDIO AXIOM 25 with a E-mu Proteus 1 Sound Module-ProToLogic-InVision Sounds to get started.
What I don’t really understand about these controllers and these racks is how it is all incorporated, like for instance will these two even work together, that is will the M-audio Controller be able to trigger the sounds in the Proteus? and is this practical for live use?
Also, if so, what else besides more midi cables would I need to make it work?
I have D/I’s on my board so that end is covered.
Basically as I said going to be used mostly for a piano sound. (motley crues Home Sweet Home, John Lennon’s Imagine, Billy Joel’s Piano Man, etc etc…perhaps the occasional Rhodes solo key breaks “Get back” type stuff.
keep shinin
jerm 
Go for it, Jerm. MIDI is a truly friendly plug ‘n’ play scene. The old modules are as cheap as chips now. Not sure how you’re gonna fit it in with the rest of your set-up but if syncing isn’t an issue then one lead is all you’ll need, otherwise, check-out midi merge/split/thru boxes.
I gigged for years with a guitars/drums/3X voc band with midi thrown in. Some of the daisy-chaining we got away with was ridiculous and a real testement to midi.
One guy I know had about 10 keyboards midied together with 10 ms of latency total. Midi really was well designed. I mean, it’s vintage now, right?
Go for it, Jerm. MIDI is a truly friendly plug 'n' play scene. The old modules are as cheap as chips now. Not sure how you're gonna fit it in with the rest of your set-up but if syncing isn't an issue then one lead is all you'll need, otherwise, check-out midi merge/split/thru boxes.
I gigged for years with a guitars/drums/3X voc band with midi thrown in. Some of the daisy-chaining we got away with was ridiculous and a real testement to midi.
Thankz Tony,
So essentially what your saying is these two devices will work together and I do not need any other device just to use them as a live keyboard.
The most I could see implementing as far as syncing would be changing various patches for songs at this point but that would be one signal at the begging of a backing track that sends a program change for each song, it is done during the count in for the most part.
So far I have these devices all doing program changes during songs via Midi,
GNX4, Digitech s100, LA Multigate, Pro Co DMX lighting Module.
Basically I have programed each device's presets to correspond to the same program change numbers during a song, and a few other CC# event numbers for more detailed parameters.
The entire midi command is on a single channel (10) since that is what the GNX4 receives and transmits, and it is very limited in that sense since too many number changes will also trigger unwanted changes in the devices.
Unfortunately right now that is my limitation since the GNX4 is the core device and has wav. files (bass tracks) that are being used.
However, that may change in the future as I get to know midi more and understand these synth modules.
for now simplicity is the key, and you are definitely right I could not believe what these $1000 retail modules are going for now in auctions.
For the price of what I would pay for a large but cheesy sounding keyboard I could get both of the for mentioned items.
keep shinin
jerm
One guy I know had about 10 keyboards midied together with 10 ms of latency total.
Midi really was well designed.
I mean, it's vintage now, right?
Oh definitely vintage tech, but some of these sounds were tops in their day and featured on Genesis albums!
My opinion is if was good enough for Phil it is good enough for my live rig.
Does this mean I can finally do "In the Air Tonight", Oh Lord.
keep shinin
jerm
Actualy, “midi” doesn’t refer to the sounds, but to the interface protocol. Given that they designed it in 1982 and it is still going strong, it was either a really easy problem to solve, or the folks who did it were brilliant. Given that is was mostly Dave Smith’s work, if I understand it correctly, I go for the “brilliant” option. 
Actualy, "midi" doesn't refer to the sounds, but to the interface protocol.
Given that they designed it in 1982 and it is still going strong, it was either a really easy problem to solve, or the folks who did it were brilliant.
Given that is was mostly Dave Smith's work, if I understand it correctly, I go for the "brilliant" option.
Oh I understand that completely Tom, Good morning BTW.
What I meant was the particular module's sounds I am looking at, at least I am assuming this rack unit has sounds of some kind in it, because it is my understanding the for mentioned controller does not.
P.S. -Tony
I am noticing some of the M-audio controllers do not have midi out, only USB.....eek.
keep shinin
jerm
Well the Oxygen 8 V2 series for example only has midi out (1)…
keep shinin
jerm
Oh, yeah, oops, I’m a moron, sorry about that, Jeremy. I’m so old, I never thought of that module as vintage. 
Oh, yeah, oops, I'm a moron, sorry about that, Jeremy.
I'm so old, I never thought of that module as vintage.
Don't be so hard on yourself Tom, there are always others in the world to do that for you.
Moron is a bit much don't cha tink?
silly goose,..... maybe, but moron you certainly are not.
keep shinin
jerm
Any keyboard with midi will do - you don’t need to hear it - just as long as it triggers your mod’s. I spotted a fully upgraded AKAI S2000 sampler with a massive library on ebay that went for
£75! Bonkers!
PS. Moron in Welsh is carrot:-)
Any keyboard with midi will do - you don't need to hear it - just as long as it triggers your mod's. I spotted a fully upgraded AKAI S2000 sampler with a massive library on ebay that went for
£75! Bonkers!
PS. Moron in Welsh is carrot:-)
YEp, I just don't want any keyboard tho, most of them are too BIG! we are talking some cramped quarters on these stages.
AKAI S2000,....about that what is the difference between a "sampler" and
the modules I am looking at? Roland U-220, E-mu Proteus 1, ALESIS S4, etc....
These modules go for even less than 75 believe it or not you just got be in the right place at the right time.
I am also looking at these controllers, E-MU 25, M-Audio Oxygen 8 v2, M-AUDIO AXIOM 25, Novation Remote 25, and a Yamaha MU 50 (although I am not sure about that last one...."tone generator" not real sure if that is the same as the rest) most of them are 25 keys which is all a need, like to put the controller on a small laptop rack, since I can't seem to find stage racks for the smaller ones. as I said tho the downside to these smaller controllers is some of them have no midi in, only ONE out.
I can get most of these modules for around $50 quid and the controllers for about the same keeping the whole project near $100.
just trying to do some research on the modules and controllers, and various pro-s cons.
For instance it has been said the ALESIS S4 has better piano sounds than it predecessor the S4 PLUS, I am kinda partial to better sounding piano.
P.S...so that would make TomS Carrot Top's brother?
keep shinin
jerm
Hmmm just had a thought…
I was thinking this (ONE) midi out and no INPUT was a major flaw of these smaller controllers…but then it dawned on me…that the Module can receive program changes from it’s inputs (which I would send from the GNX4) and I could then bypass whatever setting the controller is On (like have it send it’s program numbers out to a dead channel the module is not receiving) and just use the keys on the mini controller to trigger notes only?
keep shinin
jerm
but then, you’d be missing out on the full implementation and potential of midi. I’m sure you can squeeeze it in to your set-up.
The S2000 (and to some extent, the EWI) was AKAI’s downfall. They couldn’t compete with Yamaha when it came to putting a pro sampler on the shelves at under a
£1000.
But! Once you’ve filled the box with everything that a sampler needs, ie; ram, i/o’s and all, you’ve spent another grand:-( ‘that’s’ why they’re a good buy these days - they’ve all been upgraded.
Jerm! It’s just like any midi controlled module, but, real samples and the libraries are huge.
Just a thought.
P.S...so that would make TomS Carrot Top's brother?
Good God, no!
but then, you'd be missing out on the full implementation and potential of midi. I'm sure you can squeeeze it in to your set-up.
The S2000 (and to some extent, the EWI) was AKAI's downfall. They couldn't compete with Yamaha when it came to putting a pro sampler on the shelves at under a
£1000.
But! Once you've filled the box with everything that a sampler needs, ie; ram, i/o's and all, you've spent another grand:-( 'that's' why they're a good buy these days - they've all been upgraded.
Jerm! It's just like any midi controlled module, but, real samples and the libraries are huge.
Just a thought.
Ok I understand a bit more now....
So you are saying I could load Steve Slates midi drum samples into a AKAI S2000?
So this is a device that has it's own hardrive and ram, it's making more sense now the advantage that has over a simpler module (although I can't imagine that a module that retailed for almost $1000 like the "E-mu Proteus 1 Sound Module-with ProToLogic-InVision Sounds" would fall short in the piano sound department) which is the main use this will have.
PS, you are selling me on this AKAI S2000....got my eyes on one now for $75.
I think the main source of my confusion when looking at these samplers is that they do not mention in the adds that they are module's as well, I guess they just assume anyone looking at them knows enough about midi to know that....who's the carrot now?
My other concern with this type of device (and correct me if I am wrong) is that it is more like a computer and less like a synth/keyboard with a few GOOD stock sounds. (which is all I am trying to achieve right now) it requires a disk to load and it could crash....eek! were as the other simpler modules I am looking at are less prone to "hardrive" related problems.....sure they are a one or two trick pony but they are reliable in that you just power them up and they play the "stock" sounds.
keep shinin
jerm
Hey here is another question…
does Ntrack record Midi?
Just wondering because when I play beats on my GNX4 and the USB cable is connected to the computer I am able to record the midi data into Protracks…but then I have to save it and open it in Ntrack to do the editing (just more familiar with Ntrack piano roll and other midi functions)
but it would be cool to be able to use the midi controller to say play piano notes and record the midi data and then keep re-sampling it though various sf2’s I already have…
keep shinin
jerm
And yet ANOTHER question…eek…I know, but this is called “midi ?-?-?'s” so please people bear with me!
Was wondering…which of the two devices I would dump a midi file into to be played (drums, bass, and possibly keys) the controller or the synth module?
Simple stuff like that is why I need a thread.
If I could rap my brain around that I could get away from using wav. backing tracks as much and just use the midi to implement it.
And I would not have to rely on the GNX 4 as the center transmitter of midi data on channel 10 only, it would then just receive the drum and patch change data on channel ten while other devices (like the digitech s100 and DMX lighting module) would be free to receive data on other channels…
(although I would keep the wav. backing tracks as a back up in the event the Akai S-3000-XL would take a crapper, one thing I have learned with live work always have a plan B.
keep shinin
jerm
Of course it records midi!
The module receives the data. It could received data from n, for example.