Until n-track is available for Linux
Well, I have been using n-track on a Windows machine for a while now, and I am porting over to Linux soon. In a desperate attempt to find DAW for Linux, I suggested that n-track be ported over to Linux. Since this would almost require that n-track be put under the GPL and perhaps require the source to be available, I don’t think that n-track will be available for Linux at all.
I know that someone on this board was asking about DAW alternatives for Linux in the distant past, so I thought I’d post my findings for any of you that arre interested in such things.
Check this out: Ardour
Before I get attacked by n-track fan boys, I would just like to point out that if n-track were available for non-Windows users, I would probably still be using n-track.
Of course, you could just configure your machine for dual bood XP and Unix and get the best of both worlds
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| Before I get attacked by n-track fan boys, I would just like to point out that if n-track were available for non-Windows users, I would probably still be using n-track. |
Well that’s a possibility, however it is a little “rude” to use Flavio’s forum to advertise another product. Remember this is an N-track board - not a general recording board.
Wow this “Ardour” thing looks very complicated. It looks like there are numerous other programs to download before you can even run it. I guess that is why I’m a “n-track fan boy”. It is simple to download and intiutive to use. I don’t have to get a computor programing degree to use it.
Mark,
I wasn’t advertising. If you want to get on my case for sharing alteranatives, you will have to take issue with anyone on this board that “advertises” new guitars, mics, sound cards, traction, pro tools, etc. My intent was to show those Linux users on this board, and I know there are a few, that they can use their linux systems as a DAW. If it offends you that I am trying to assist the recording community, then I am sorry. Like I said, if n-track was available for linux, I wouldn’t have to search for alternatives.
Jeff,
That’s true, I could double boot. I thought about that, and it seems a little wasteful to me to maintain an additional OS just to support one application (and any supporting applications as well).
true north,
Linux comes with an updater that will download and install all dependencies for you if you have it configured correctly, so the setup is actually alot easier than it may appear. I agree though, I love the simplicity of n-track.
For those that are not using Linux, I highly recommend n-track. The support for n-track is unparalelled, the interface is intuitive and easy to use, and you can’t beat the price for what you get. I’ve been using n-track for a while now, and I have never had a complaint, except for the dependency on Windows of course.
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| I wasn’t advertising. If you want to get on my case for sharing alteranatives, you will have to take issue with anyone on this board that “advertises” new guitars, mics, sound cards, etc. My intent was to show those Linux users on this board, and I know there are a few, that they can use their linux systems as a DAW. If it offends you that I am trying to assist the recoring community, then I am sorry. Like I said, if n-track was available for linux, I wouldn’t have to search for alternatives. |
Errrmmm yes it was advertising. The difference between “advertising” guitars, mics etc is that they are not in direct competition to N-track. I’m not getting on your case, and I’m not offended, I’m just pointing out that it is rude (to Flavio) to discuss such things here.
If anyone remembers Robert from way back, he said at one point he got n-track working in WINE. I have never tried it myself, but if you have time to kill, it might be worth trying. I just don’t know drivers would behave.
As for Ardour, no VST, DX, or ReWire. Err, I’ll stick with N for now. It has potential though.
So…what’s wrong with windows?
Mark,
If Flavio is offended, he is free to remove this topic from is board, and I will apologize to him. I’m sorry you feel the way you do, but the intent was not to draw business from Flavio. I don’t think that’s too big of a concern, because the vast majority of the people on this board are perfectly happy with running n-track on Windows, and will not change to another program, never mind another OS, for any reason.
The reason I posted this at all is because a long time ago, there was a member of this board who was in the same situation I am in and was lementing the fact that there was no DAW alternative for the linux world. I don’t know if that particular user is still on this board or not, but I thought I’d point out that this is no longer the case.
In the end, I will let Flavio determine whether this topic is “rude” or considered "advertising."
Tom,
Nothing is wrong with Windows, as long as you don’t mind the fact that it grows over time because it doesn’t clean up after its self, it does things in the background in the most inopertune times, it is a memory hog, it has a stack overflow issue that is exploited by every script kiddy out there who likes to make viruses, etc.
Bubba,
I tried to get n-track running under WINE, but WINE is still kind of spoty on running Windows applications. Maybe VMware would work better.
Just to play devil’s advocate here… I wouldn’t consider the product that Mjolnir mentioned to be direct competition to n-Track because it runs on a different OS.
On the other hand: if you already own a copy of Windows, go the dual-boot route in order to use n-Track. It’s not like HD space is expensive anymore.
John and Jeff,
The more I think about it, the more I think you may be right about that dual boot thing. I looked a little closer at Ardour after Bubba mentioned that Windows based plugins are not supported with Ardour, and I’m not sure I would want to rely on it without knowing its capabilities for sure. I will keep Windows around for games and n-track, and try out Ardour on linux. I will point out that Ardour does support non-Windows plugs though.
I’ve been dual booting Windows and my PlanetCCRMA distribution of Linux since I got N-track (about a year now…been a “part-time” Linux user since about '94). Ardour’s great and is shaping up really nicely, but it also doesn’t do MIDI sequencing. I could probably use JACK to sync it with some external sequencing program, but I just prefer the simplicity of the all-in-one packages (e.g. Rosegarden, N-track, etc.). As for the plugins thing, though, Ardour has apparently worked with VST plugs using certain versions of WINE, but that sounds iffy to me.
Rosegarden is cool, too, but even the latest version still crashes too much for me to complete any projects. There are other good tools under Linux, though. I may use Jamin for mastering when I get to that stage, depending on how N-track’s Multiband Compressor plug works out (or doesn’t). But there was also a point where Jamin stopped working for me for several months because of some plugin bugs. Flavio’s been good about fixing most of the 20+ bugs I’ve reported in a day or two, and that’s important to me.
In all, I like to keep the Linux stuff around to stay in the loop, but I have had much more success with the Windows apps, and N-track has everything I need under one roof. BUT if I were committed to going 100% Linux, then I too would like to see N-track under Linux; however, being pretty much a one-man show, I doubt Flavio would have the time to devote to it. Oh well, that’s my 2 bits…
Tony
Ardour/Jack is one of the best combinations I’ve seen (other than N), I’ve been using it for about 1.5 years - It does really work well, but you’ll need to compile your own kernel (2.4.x) but I believe that the low latency code is available in the 2.6.x kernels.
Jack is really the centrepiece of the linux DAW, it’s basically the central patch point, many soft synths are now configured for (Zynsubaddfx/Spiral Modular/etc…). Hydrogen is a great drum machine, check out the application page at http://jackit.sourceforge.net/apps/
I’ve played with some of them - so far everything has been good, though some library hunting was needed.
The Ladspa effects are really good too, took me a while to get the hang of how to use it, but they are good.
The Debian testing distribution has just about everything an audiohound would want, anything you can compile yourself (make config, make, make install).
It’s a bit more CPU hungry than Windoze/n-track and the effects don’t have the nifty gui’s (yet), but development is moving very swiftly, Ardour is almost 1.0 (0.9beta29) and jackd is at 0.99.
Ntrack won’t wine under wine or cedega (I’ve tried) - even Cedega which is a nearly full implementation of Direct-X (I can run Everquest/Starcraft/Age of Empires) but doesn’t have the cajones to run something as direct-x intensive as N.
Boris Nagels did publish “multitrack” for linux a few years ago, but it didn’t work very well due to a lack of a consistant sound driver architecture. KHDREC started a little later but never made 1.0.
Alsa (The open source sound driver) has come light years in the last few years, it supports everything m-audio, Echo/Event, RME.
Currently, I use n-track for all my commercial projects and Linux/Jack/ardour for everything else.
I don’t think this would be considered “Advertising” Ardour is open source (i.e. nothing to buy) as is it’s underlying operating system.
.-=gp=-.
Another blondes vs. brunettes discussion.
I continue to love both…
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| Windows based plugins are not supported with Ardour |
LADSPA Baby!!! 32-bit/realtime/no differentiation between data ports and control ports - all params can be automated. Also no differentiation between effects and sources - an effect can be a oscillator/modulator/etc, so you can build synth networks out of the effect modules.
VST is supported but it’s gonna take some time to get the VST server working - there is now an implementation that doesn’t require Wine, but it’s a server based app so it’s always running taking up resources (it does require libwine - sorry).
.-=gp=-.
| Quote (makako @ May 17 2005,13:32) |
| Another blondes vs. brunettes discussion. I continue to love both…
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Of course, you’ll still tend to go with whichever is less “moody” and more “in the mood”, as well, I suppose…hmmm…this analogy does seem to work, eh?
Tony
| Quote (makako @ May 17 2005,16:32) |
| Another blondes vs. brunettes discussion. I continue to love both....
|
you are right...
Actually I am sure that N could be ported and and get around the GPL issues but it is simply not worth it.
I am speaking from the perspective of someone who worked as a software developer for close to 25 years. I started working with Linux back when I had to download and install Slackware one floppy at a time (Ahhh Linux before the bloat started ;).
The truth is that the huge majority of individual folks who run Linux are not willing to shell out a single cent for any piece of software, no matter how good it is. The only people who are willing pay for Linux software are corporate customers and those are not a huge part of N’s target market.
Simple economics, an existing customer base and maybe the chance of eventually selling N to a larger compay all say that Flavio’s efforts should be 100% focused on the Windows platform - and this comes from someone who tends to hate Windows as an OS…Me
Peace,
TrackGrrrl
I just tried the latest DeMuDi audio distro last week and Ardour is still not quite V1. Basic functionality is rock solid with my 10X10 C-Port soundcard (envy24 chip) for tape machine functionality, but the VST thing isn’t quite ready yet. And I need my plugins! My home office machine has been running debian Linux for more than a year, and the OS runs for months at a time without crashes or lockups.
Linux-interested people also try out the new tiny Knoppix-type “OS on a CD” like Puppy and DSL (#### Small Linux). This is where you put a CD in your drive and the OS loads into RAM without messing with your hard drive and normal OS in any way, to check out Linux without hassle.