Need Help

Inserting blank space

Ok, this may just be one of the dumbest questions ever asked here but I just can’t seem to figure it out on my own. I will often copy (or clone in n) a track (eg guitar) and then move it 20 to 30 ms in the timeline to create a slight delay effect to add a spacial sense (panned the opposite of the original track). I figured the easiest way to do this was to insert blank space at the beginning of the cloned track. No matter what I do I can’t seem to come up with the time format (0:00.00???) to get the slight delay I want. It’s either too much or non-existant. I imagine it’s a simple math type way of determining what constitutes milliseconds in the timeline, but again, I tried just about everything I could think of to no avail. Hep’ me sombody, pleeeze! :)

what version are you using ?

Dr J

Using build 2227

Eyup!

no need to insert any space, just drag the wav (turn snapping off so you have fine control)
Alternatively you could try the following method, suggested by another NTracker (Robert, I think):

For the cloning and moving a little there is a MUCH better method for acheiving the same effect…

1. Goto the tracks properties and expand mono track to stereo (if it is not already stereo)

2. Plug-in the n-track echo effect

3. Unlock the left/right channels

4. Pick a channel you want to remain “in time” and set depth/mix/delay/gain all to 0.0 (that means 0.0 gain, not -inf), and decay to -inf

5. goto the other channel and place delay at 0, mix at 100%, gain at 0.0 and depth at 0.

6. For the channel in step 5, change the depth anywhere from 5-50ms to acheive the effect of artificially doubling the track. The channel in step 4 will remain the same, while the channel in step 5. will be delayed in relation by the amount specified in depth

The exact same thing as simply moving one track forward without the hassle, and alot more control.

Steve

Thanks for the reply. I know that can be done and I much prefer to us a separate track for several reasons. I ususally run the delayed track dry or vice versa and using two tracks uses less cpu / free’s up cpu for other effects, etc. I especially use different eq’s for the two tracks.

When I insert blank space at the beginning of the track there is an option for start time and length. It’s the length that I’m having trouble with. What “numbers” would equal 20ms? The format is 0:00.00 and if additional 0’s are added (eg 0:00.000002) it seems to make no difference how many 0’s preceed the 2.

Hope this makes any sense at all !!!

As steve said, there is no need to insert space. If you don’t want to drag the track to the right, double-click it instead and set the offset to whatever you want.

Ok, that gives me what I want and couldn’t find initially…but.

I’m still back to what numbers would I enter in the offset to equal 20ms. The offset shows the same “clock” format that the insert space one does… 0:00.00

I’m just at a loss trying to make it be 20 (or whatever) ms

Quote (BlueMojo @ Mar. 07 2007,15:01)
I’m still back to what numbers would I enter in the offset to equal 20ms. The offset shows the same “clock” format that the insert space one does… 0:00.00

I’m just at a loss trying to make it be 20 (or whatever) ms

What “0:00.00” means depends on what your time format is. If your time format is 30fps, then the values after the decimal can go from 0-29, with each being about 33ms. So 0:00.01 would be 33ms later than 0:00.00. For finer control, switch the format next to the track offset to samples. You calculate the number of samples in 20ms by dividing your sample rate by 50 (or multiplying by .02). For example, if your sample rate is 44.1kHz, then 44100/50 = 882. So offsetting a 44.1kHz track by 882 samples gives a 20ms delay.

0:00.00 = minutes:seconds:fractions of seconds. 0:00.02 should give you the 20 milliseconds you need…

I think you need to set the time format to minutes:seconds:etc…
I hope this is right! :D

'til next time;
Tony W

Thanks for all the suggestions! Here’s what I did. The fraction of a second Tony mentioned seems to be much more that 20ms…but I’m not sure either! Since what I was looking for was a delay that was less that what I could get with 0:00.02 I changed the time format to M:T:B and was able to increase it in very small increments until I had what I needed. It reverts back to 30fps in the box and shows no offset but when you change back to MTB it’s there, and you can hear it.

Now, on an interesting note. If you change the offset for example to 0:00.0000002 it will ignore anything past the last two digits…er, more accurately it will move the last digit to .02 This shows on the offset when playback starts.

If you insert blank space I think it does the same thing but there is no way of seeing it like on the offset box. In other words I spent a bunch of time thinking I was changing the insert time when it was just in fact ignoring all my 0’s. Lesson learned!

Thanks again for all the replies!

0.02 seconds = two one-hundredths of a second, which is the same as 20 one-thousandths, just as .2 centimeters is the same as 2 millimeters…

Anyway, that is a little weird about the .0000002 being seen as .02, but if it works that way, that’s the way it works! :D

What is really interesting to me is that there are actually several ways to get the effect you are trying for, and all of them are effective! Just different. Shows the true power of nTrack!

'til next time;
wynot

Quote (wynot @ Mar. 07 2007,17:54)
0.02 seconds = two one-hundredths of a second, which is the same as 20 one-thousandths, just as .2 centimeters is the same as 2 millimeters…

The problem is that in n-track time formats, the numbers following the decimal are not tenths, hundredths, etc. They’re frames. So 0:38.02 is not 38 seconds and 2 hundredths, it’s 38 seconds and 2 frames. If the format is 30fps, 2 frames is about 67 milliseconds. You can get the digits after the decimal to be tenths, hundredths, etc. by choosing “custom” as your time format and accepting the default 1000fps. The numbers after the decimal are still frames, but 1 frame = 1ms. Then 0:38.020 is 38.02 seconds (38 seconds and 20ms).

(I’m speaking from v4 here, so I don’t know if this has changed in v5).

This little dx effect makes small increments of sliding tracks easy as pie. It slides them by sample count. It’s pretty easy to figure out the ms by using samples per second. 44100 samples per second would be 44.1 samples per ms, so for a 2 ms delay use 88 samples. Of course it shows the delay in milliseconds as well.

http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/audio/sslide.htm

KB, you are right, I should have remembered that - I always use the measure/beat display on the timeline, and align delayed signals so they occur on the beat (or 1/4, or 1/64th, or…) And lately I mostly use a delay vst for this sort of doubling effect. They’re great! All of them! :D

'til next time;
TW