My first attempts at recording.
I am new to recording and have recently downloaded n track after looking at several programs. I have recorded my Vox Valvetronix AD50VT amp and my Home built Strat using my XP laptop with a cheapo Phillips microphone. The sound quality is ok but not great. Will a better mike like a Shure SM57 make a lot of difference with the limitations of the standard soundcard. I have noticed if you use live recording you get a delay for the second track your recording but it is ok if live is turned off.
Is there an answer to this?
Thanks in advance
Quote: (One-way @ Mar. 07 2008, 9:11 AM)
I am new to recording and have recently downloaded n track after looking at several programs. I have recorded my Vox Valvetronix AD50VT amp and my Home built Strat using my XP laptop with a cheapo Phillips microphone. The sound quality is ok but not great. Will a better mike like a Shure SM57 make a lot of difference with the limitations of the standard soundcard. I have noticed if you use live recording you get a delay for the second track your recording but it is ok if live is turned off.
Is there an answer to this?
Thanks in advance
Is there an answer? Yes. Infact there are millions of answers and you'll get a different one from each person that you ask.
It largely depends on what budget you have available and what you are aiming to achieve with your recordings - near studio quality? Scratchpad demos?
I'll address a couple of points to stimulate debate.
Generally laptop soundcards are not the greatest, but you might be lucky and have a good one. Or at least an adequate one to get started with. Plenty of options are available once you decide you do want to upgrade.
Also, you usually find that on the majority of cards the "line-in" is much better quality than the "mic in" so let's assume that that is what you'll use from this point onwards.
A small mixer or dedicated preamp would be a good start to add next. This opens up plenty of options for connecting things to your laptop. Either device should be able to accept 1/4" jacks, XLRs etc, and provide the necessary level and impedance conversions for you so you can plug into you sound card's line in.
The SM57 is a great all-round mic, but you might want to consider a Large Diagram Condensor (eg the cheap MXLs, or the better Rode NT1a). If you ever start recording acoustic guitars and vocals and things like that the LDC will come into it's own. LDCs usually require "phantom power" which most mixers and preamps should be able to provide without hassle.
Using "Live" mode. DON'T. (Unless you want to use VSTi or VST effects as you record). As you've noticed you get delay - "latency" between what you play and what you hear. Now, yes, on better soundcards you can tweak settings to reduce latency to a manageable level but then you may run into other issues. So what to do? Well, it's much better to monitor in hardware or via your soundcard directly. I monitor via my mixer but I used to monitor via my soundcard (it's just a case of getting the settings right).
OK, that's enough for now. I'm sure others will chip in.
And the answer to the $6000000 question is "yes". It is possible to produce high quality recordings using n-track and a few hundred dollars of gear. If you continue with this very rewarding hobby you will no doubt catch an affliction called "GAS" - Gear Aquisition Syndrome - a symptom of which is convincing oneself that "my studio will be complete if I just get that ".... The symptom never seems to be satified though :-)
Mark
Thanks Mark about the line in tip. At this early stage I want to learn the basics before jumping into any major purchases of gear. Ive got GAS already (guitar acquisition syndrome) with a Tele on the go at the moment.
One thing that is annoying is those bonging sounds the evaluation version puts on the mix down. I guess I will have to buy the program to stop that and also unlock other features?
I also have Audacity, Reaper, and Acid music studio 7 an evaluation version. Acid does read n track files directly but most others Ive tried need to be converted to MP3 or similar.
Don’t convert to mp3!
Those amps record very nicely. You need a decent preamp to get what you are looking for. Here’s where I get controversial. I don’t like sm57s. Somehow other people get good sounds out of them. How about an Audix OM-5? In the same cost range. Nor do I think the MXL LD mics worth the money - not when compared to a slightly more expensive NT1. Don’t do what I did, waste a lot of money on low end MXL and Nady stuff. I know, I know, I am embarrassed to admit it…
Yeah, I don’t have any MXL mics (anymore), but they did get me started. I have an NT1a which I love, and some cheap Karma mics (thanks Tom!) which I’m really enjoying at the moment.
Just to add to the conversation:
If I were just starting out this is what I would do.
Get a Shure 57 or 58 - I like the 58 because I sing more than play and I feel it still records instruments fine.
Get an All-in-one USB unit like the Tascam 122. It’s 2 inputs but does have phantom power when you want to get a fancier mic.
MIcs: I have several, and I use different ones for different things, but honestly, I have gone back and listened to recordings I made to tape with the Shure 58 and they are every bit as good a sound as some of the more expensive ones and they Last! You can use them on stage. They can be EQ’d if need be and are consistant and dependable.
Firewire is suppose to be better than USB, but with a laptop you cannot be sure it will work. (the firewire thing is a Big Problem with some computers and it is difficult to discover just what works - unless you are recording several tracks at once, you don’t need Firewire. If you want to record several tracks with a laptop find an interface that runs on the PCMCIA cardbus. ) The USB 2 will work on any computer that has a modern CPU and if you stick to recording one or two tracks at a time will never give you any trouble.
OK - that’s my 2 cents worth.
Good luck.
YEs, One-way
you will have to buy the program (pay for registration) to get rid of the beeps and unlock anything, although I am not sure what is not working that would be if registered.
Couldn’t he buy two Karmas and put them inside the Valvetronix? Like an isocab? (they are $15 BTW)
I saw an Alesis USB mixer the other day on Ebay for $40, if I can find the link will post it.
keep shinin’
jerm 
I imagine your laptop probably does not have a “Line in”, but a “mic in”.
The sound quality of any microphone using the mic in will be terrible, so you’ll need a preamp or mixer.
However, with a laptop that has no “line in” you should get a USB preamp or mixer.
Try that with your cheapy microphone before you go out & buy a mic.
Scan through these:
USB Preamps
If your laptop has a “line in” (versus a “mic in”), Behringer makes a cheap $35 mixer that will get you started.
So I need a USB interface to get decent results. I cant see a line in, only Mic and headphone sockets as the Laptop is about 4 yrs old now.
I guess I would want a powered pre amp/mixer that has an XLR socket for the microphone and jack plug sockets. As I play guitar on my church worship team I have easy access to borrow sound gear like SM57 and 58 Mic’s. I dont know about borrowing the mixing desk though.
The sound quality isn’t what I would term terrible but isn’t CD quality sound. I will have to look around at small mixers.
The page wont let me edit again. Why does the drum track some times not record? It shows the recording lines but when all is saved and you reopen again there is no sound from the drums. Annoying!
There are some pretty good drum patterns in this program though.
What other programs directly read the n track wav/sng files without hiccups?
Quote: (One-way @ Mar. 07 2008, 8:31 PM)
What other programs directly read the n track wav/sng files without hiccups?
I know there is a FAQ somewhere that tells which other programs files will open up in NTrack, but I am unaware of one that tell which other proggies will open Ntrack files (sng.) there are just far too many wav. editors to test them all....
The wav. files that are recorded in Ntrack should be usable in any wav. editor (provided they are mixed down into a file name)
All one has to do is import that file into another proggy.
The sng. files are a different story since they incorporate the placement of smaller files into a time line, VST settings effects volume levels, ect ect.
keep shinin'
jerm
Quote: (One-way @ Mar. 07 2008, 8:10 PM)
So I need a USB interface to get decent results. I cant see a line in, only Mic and headphone sockets as the Laptop is about 4 yrs old now.
I guess I would want a powered pre amp/mixer that has an XLR socket for the microphone and jack plug sockets. As I play guitar on my church worship team I have easy access to borrow sound gear like SM57 and 58 Mic's. I dont know about borrowing the mixing desk though.
The sound quality isn't what I would term terrible but isn't CD quality sound. I will have to look around at small mixers.
Besides USB 2.0 (or 3.0 in a couple of years at 4.8Gbs), another alternative to the "missing laptop Line-In" is to check if a docking port (or port replicator) was made for your laptop.
Usually these things add more ports that weren't on the laptop because of size constraint/formfactor, such as line-in, digital audio out, keyboard ps/2, etc.
My laptop had no line-in, so I found a port replicator on eBay for around $13 used (or $150 new).
As far as noise ratios from the line-in, results may vary (including noise ratio on other ports such as headphone-out on the replicator vs. on the laptop).
Depending on what equipment you already have, using Line-in may be
cheaper or costlier than USB2/FW.
But USB2/FW may be the better way to go for an all-out digital solution. For the Line-in route, connect that port to your external 'analog' mixer.
Technoid
Thanks for that info. Im still deciding which way to go as far as an interface goes.
The setup I’m using at the moment is certainly noise free. I post a link to some instrumentals I made up as I went along to get feedback as to what the perceived sound quality is and what sort of improvements I might get.
I’ve had a quick listen to the tracks you posted and (on my little ear buds) the raw tracks don’t sound too bad.
What is it that you think is wrong with them? If you are wondering why they don’t sound like CD tracks then I don’t think equipment is your answer… you need to get experienced in mixing, tracking, production, effects, EQ, etc - that kind of stuff.
Just one tiny example - your first track -with the clean guitar - has quite a nice sound, then the lead guitar comes in with exactly the same sound. I think you’d get better results using slightly different sounds and thus avoiding the “masking” that takes place.
I’m no expert but I do know that lots of people get paid lots of money to make good recordings - usually because they are highly gifted or highly experienced (or both).
anyway, not trying to sound harsh, $0.02