Ntrack Sync Issues

Hello,

First off, let me say I first started using Ntrack in about 98 or 99…I believe when it first came out. At the time I was using an 133mhz computer with about 128MB of ram on windows 95…talk about slowwww, and never exprienced the issues I am expriencing now.

Well, to make a long story short, I am having some sync issues. This has actually been occuring for awhile. At first I wrote them off as me being a crappy musician. The recording would start off fine, then in the middle of the song, as I added more tracks, the added tracks would sound more and more out of sync with everything else. After playing with a solid click track, and even conducting a little test of me multitracking over myself, counting from 1 to 50, I noticied the out of sync issue.

I first noticied this while using Cakewalk Guitartracks Pro. I wrote Cakewalk off as a lousy program, as there are other issues with this program that make it not worth using, So I decided to go back to good old N-track. At first, I was able to record many tracks of audio perfectly. Then, I noticied as I tried to “punch in” a recording it would always come out way out of sync. Then, I tried making a new recording. With only 2 tracks it was making itself go out of sync, just like before.

Well, if you havent guessed it, Im pretty fed up and frusterated. Anybody who gets an inspired musical idea knows that the LAST thing they want to deal with is technical issues, especially when music is a source of passion.<br><br>I have noticied this Out-of-sync problem on 3 of my computers. A Toshiba that is broken in a million pieces, lying somewhere in a dump right now in Al Anbar, Iraq (dont ask!), A powerful home built PC (3 GHZ Pentium 4, 2 gigabytes of DDR2 RAM) and my laptop, which is 2ghz with 1gig of ddr2 ram. Now, I know if I could record perfectly on my old piece o crap 133mhz computer, I wouldnt think that something as simple as multitracking would cause problems with the hardware I have!<br><br>I formally used the Audigy 2 NX external sound card, which worked great but did not work with my laptop. I recently purchased the audigy 2 ZS (PCMCIA card) and it seems to be working alright. <br><br>I have tried ASIO4ALL, altering different sound buffer settings, etc, to no avail, even closing other running programs (even though N-track uses less then 5% of my cpu power when im recording) Is there a curse on me?! Im at a crossroads. I suppose. After many months of trying to get this to work, I dont have the patience to sit around and try to get it to work, especially when Id rather be doing some creative instead…

Sorry `bout the long post. Now that I think of it, I think this is my very first post. Well, can anyone help, or should I sell all my stuff and take up knitting?

have ya written to support about your problems?i would start there and see what kind of feedback ya get,you failed to mention what version you were using ,did you upgrade from a previous one? are you using midi while having the problem?

Quote (Natelute @ Dec. 07 2006,04:10)
I formally used the Audigy 2 NX external sound card, which worked great but did not work with my laptop. I recently purchased the audigy 2 ZS (PCMCIA card) and it seems to be working alright.

I think here might be the key. I guess you are experiencing lag that is related to soundcard that, well, sucks. Typically a laptop build in sound card is like that.

5.4. Sync & lag issues
With some soundcards new recordings don‟t sound perfectly in sync with the previous tracks because of the inability of the soundcard to start the recording and the playback at the very same time. If you notice a sync problem in which recorded tracks sound constantly (i.e. with equal delay during the whole length of the recording) too early or too late with respect to existing tracks in the song you can use the compensation parameter in the Preferences/Wave devices/Advanced dialog box to compensate for the problem. Use a negative value if the new tracks sound delayed or a positive value if new tracks sound too early (the program will shift new tracks to the right by the amount specified, or if the compensation is negative the shift will be towards the left). The default value of 0 will work in almost all systems. Usually there‟s no need to worry about the compensation settings, so read this only if you can hear a shift between the recorded tracks, If you experience sync problems try unchecking both the Preferences/Options/Use system timer for checkboxes, then set the Preferences/Recording settings/Hide lag indicator.. parameter to 1. During a recording, notice the value that will appear near the "lag" writing on the time window on the program‟s toolbar. If the lag value is constant throughout the duration of the recording it can be compensated with the compensation setting discussed above. If the lag value grows constantly during the recording the problem is most likely caused by the soundcard sampling frequency not being perfectly constant or by a difference in the soundcard‟s recording and playback sampling frequencies. When this occurs the problem can‟t be fixed using the compensation parameter and the program may not work properly so it may be necessary to change soundcard. Note: the lag values reported are based on the recording and playback position information reported to the program by the soundcard. This information may be incorrect so it may lead to think that sync problems exist while it‟s just that the recording and/or playback times are being reported incorrectly. It‟s very important to double check with your ears if the lag values reported make sense.

Do the Audigy cards suffer from the “48K problem” like the old Live cards? Worth a try… Start a new project and record set the recording sample rate to be 48kHz. Record a few tracks and see what happens. Certainly used to work like magic on the Live cards.

Another thing, I’f I run lots of plugins I can get sync problems when I record additional tracks. SIR reverb especially.

X
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I’ve been having very similar sync/lag problems with my setup recently. I wrote to Flavio, included a dump file, and he replied that he was “unable to duplicate the problem.” He suggested reverting to default settings, removing all plugins, etc. But, the problems remains.

I have been convinced that there is something in my setup that is causing this, but so far I have not been able to isolate it. I’m using a Delta 410 card at 48K, 24 bit. I also have an Audigy 2ZS in the box, but it’s not used for recording audio, just MIDI and for system sounds and CD playback. I’ve tried recording at 16 bit, with MIDI and without MIDI tracks. Tried switching to the Audigy. Checked and unchecked the system timer checkboxes, simplified, the waveform display, set Windows XP for priority to background tasks, etc. With the metronome (through nTrack drums) and without.The most perplexing thing of all is that the lag is not consistent. Say I have a project with 8 tracks. The 9th one I add might be almost a full beat later than the old tracks. Then the 10th track might actually be in sync. Then the 11th one is closer to the beat or further away from it.

You can see it visually if you enable drawing the waveform while recording (Yeah, I’ve tried it with and without that – no difference). The cursor (the dashed vertical line on the timeline that shows your position) is right with the waveforem if it’s in sync, and it’ll be in front of (to the left of) the waveform if it’s out. As many of you know, I’ve been using n for a long time, since 2.xx. I’m now on build 2185 and I’ve had this since about build 2170. So,Natelute, if it helps any, you’re not alone.
Another weird thing is, if I start a new song file and record just tapping on the desk with a pencil with the beat, it seems to stay in sync. I’ve done this with 10 tracks and no problem. But when I open previously saved song files, away we go.

I’ll be spending some time this weekend trying anything else that comes to mind, and I’ll keep you posted on what I find or what I can rule out as a cause. But right now I’m at a loss!

Don

hi all.

as you can see I’m new here, and I registered only because of that same problem that dontuck describes. I also experienced the in-sync-phenomena when working on a brand new project.

have there been any solutions to the problem?

I use an Audigy 2 NX with n-Track 5.1 at 48000/24.

ok, just tried “reaper” - no sync problems, so it can’t be the soundinterface.

I’m having problem too. Echo Layla card that has worked fine until 2312. I am trying 2308 now.

I think our speed problems may be coming from a new feature - just above the timeline on the right hand side is a “bar” to shange the speed of the song. I have clicked on mine at some point and don’t know how to return it to 0.
Anybody else have the problem or discovered the fix?
Bax

You don’t WANT it on 0 Bax. It should be on 1.00 for normal speed playback. If you left click on the numeric readout “x1.00” a drop down list will popup. Set it x 1. The numbers represent a multiplier. x1 means multiply by 1. x1.5 will increase playback speed by 50% or 1 and a 1/2 times normal. Does that make sense?

D

Thanks Diogenes. I knew I was looking for a X1 but I sure didn’t know how to find it. Mostly, I didn’t really notice the speed bar until just lately and I have manage to screw up a recording session with it. I’ve got to start checking things out with the tool-tip more?
I do thin it would be nice if the secrion could be moved to a different location - or am I missing that too?
Bax

I have been using Ntrack for close to a year. This time last year my recordings were going realy well and created some great demos. My system is a Mackie ONYX 1620 with firewire 400. So the soundcard is built on recent technology and with 16 track input capability for live recording. And my synch issues are getting worse and worse. I have formatted my hard drive and re-installed a coupla times in the past, but nothing…no luck…my PC is a 3.47Ghz Celeron D Processor with 2Gig of RAM. Plenty of memory and power… Iv’e tried the clock adjusts, buffering adjustments, ect. ect. to no avail. do I have to go and purchase a new software program that can actually handle what it says it can??? Or is there a new build coming that will fix all these lag and sycn problems that not only i am experiencing with Ntrack… Some one please help… what the manual and support says isn’t working…Whats a serious musician to do??? how can i record other bands also if i’m having these issues…???
these songs at the following address were recorded in early 2007 when the problems started coming to light. www.myspace.com/grasslandtheband

is there any program that doesn’t have this issue crap with spending hours trying to line stuff up and cropping tracks and pasting cloned ones in to get rid of the lagging???

Quote: (wolfbrutha @ Oct. 28 2007, 3:06 AM)

is there any program that doesn't have this issue crap with spending hours trying to line stuff up and cropping tracks and pasting cloned ones in to get rid of the lagging????

Have you checked to be sure you haven't accidentally changed playback speed?

@wolfbrutha: reaper is the answer.

you now, I don’t want to drag n-track into the mire, as I think it used to be a good program for the price. but of course, with this lag-issue it’s completely worthless. I thought it was my low-budget soundblaster but reading of other users with the same problem even with pro audio equipment makes it clear: it IS n-track.

currently I’m working with reaper. no fiddling with settings at all. recording is a pleasure again.

I’ve had sync issues lately too. I use an Echo Layla 24/96 and didn’t have trouble before. Tired my Line6 X3 USB drivers lately and have had a hell of a time fixing it so far. I had noticed the sync issue was on mixdown at first but now I’m seeing some playback issues too.

Please send Flavio a feedback notice so he can look at the problem. I use a Layla 24 also and I had some out-of sync probelms too, but I think he though it was unique to my setup. What driver are you using with the Layla?

I always use the asio.