Our Creator in the Capital: A Walking Tour of God

n-Track Studio Discussion Forum
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Quote (Mr Soul @ Jan. 14 2005,10:58)
I agree that is stupid, but "under God" should be removed from the Pledge. That line was added by a conservative government during the Eisenhower years, therefore it wasn't in the original text, so it should be removed IMO.

So my kids say the pledge at their elementary school, and we have been exposing them to multiple traditions - the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, nature based traditions (Lakota and Celtic for the most part), and Buddhisms, e.g., and secular humanism, and it is obvious to them (5 and six years old) that the pledge promotes one view at the expense of the others. Should I approach the principal?

In first grade they were taught an exercise song full of Old Testament images on a rainy day - should I talk to the teacher?

Then there is the music teacher who has told us that she views the job as her ministry, "because so many of these poor kids don't learn the truth about Jesus at home." She has regularly included Christian narratives in stories she tells that have nothing to do with the music lessons.

Then the school celebrated a multicultural Christmas in part by having posters of "Christmas around the world" in the halls - Santa sailing over the Great Wall, e.g.

Then there is the reading tutor who says "God bless you" when the kids do a good job...

And the art teacher who confided to me that she put in some stuff about the Christian background of Valentine's day, even though she knows that it is not allowed. She said that she just made it a part of the discussion about colors.

And then there was the substitue teacher who mocked openly one of the older students who is openly pagan (gasp!) in front of the whole class. Good golly, we wouldn't want anyone to be open about their religion - except Christians.

Any one who understands what tolerance really means - and what intolerance means too - would recognize how much harm is done to children in this sort of an intolerant atmosphere. And our school is among the most tolerant out there. Heck, they changed the mascot from an offensive Indian stereotype to a neutral animal one. That was pretty enlightened. Gtr4him, you may think you know the truth, but you don't. But I appreciate your willingness to defend my dad-burned heathen rights. I just wish they actually were protected.

I'd bring a suit against our school, but I don't want to put my kids through that sort of thing. As a result, we remain unjustly discriminated against, simply because we take a broad, global view of human spirituality.

What I'd really like to see is a study of religion in general made a part of their education. Nothing fights ignorance more than information.
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Quote (TomS @ Jan. 15 2005,08:12)
And then there was the substitue teacher who mocked openly one of the older students who is openly pagan (gasp!) in front of the whole class.

Obviously an idiot with no real compassion for another.

Gtr4him, you may think you know the truth, but you don't.

Whose "truth" am I supposed to "know"?? Therein lies the rub, yes?

But I appreciate your willingness to defend my dad-burned heathen rights. I just wish they actually were protected.

Sorry about that Tom. It was meant to be tounge in cheek. My first reference to "Dad-burn heathens" earlier had :D :D attached. I forgot 'em the second time!

The "truth" that I believe does not teach intolerance. I REALLY didn't mean to come off sounding that way! I wrote in another post about this funky mood I've been in lately. I have become one of the things I despise most. A Christian with no sense of humor. I'm working on it..........

TG
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Oh, TG, I think I didn’t get tone of voice right in my post. Gee, reading what I wrote I sounded really cranky. Apologies!

So, a secular humanist with no sense of humor walks into a matza bar, see, and…

:D

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And our school is among the most tolerant out there.

If that's a common example of schools in the US, then you're in a lot of trouble.

I'd like to think that as a kid, the primary schools I attended, while having Religous Education classes, took a broader look than just the christian systems. But, they probably didn't.

Willy.
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My sense, Willy, is that schools in Flint are better than most on issue sof tolerance, partly as a result of the civil rights history we have.

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Quote (clark_griswold @ Jan. 14 2005,10:29)
Newdow is the same man who tried unsuccessfully to have the words ``under God'' removed from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Bravo to Newdow and others like him. It seems lawsuits are the only way we will ever be able to finally remove "god" from the pledge, among other things. "One nation, indivisible" is how it should read, period.
Worship whoever and whatever you want in your private time, but keep it out of my government.
27

in Australia, our pledge of allegiance also contains the words ‘under god’. Every new citizen must take this pledge. However, the 2 words ‘under god’ are optional. And even though Oz is by far a more secular nation than the US, the wording of the pledge is not a national issue. That’s the solution - it’s a personal choice.

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Quote (kymarcus @ Jan. 27 2005,12:50)
in Australia, our pledge of allegiance also contains the words 'under god'. Every new citizen must take this pledge. However, the 2 words 'under god' are optional. And even though Oz is by far a more secular nation than the US, the wording of the pledge is not a national issue. That's the solution - it's a personal choice.

See there. That's the problem. We can't have personal choice in the United States of the Offended. Somebody has to do our thinking for us and legislate everything.

TG
29

Like it or not, religion isin our culture. Our culture is base don religion. A good chunk of our economy revolves around one single day that was originally a religious holiday and has tuned into all sorts of things. I don’t beieve in much, but even I celebrate Christmas. So we cannot separate religion from culture. We have too many thousands of years of religion in our cultures to make it happen over night.

The probem comes from folks cramming crap down other’s throats. You can’t be Christian, you can’t be Athenist, you can’t be Musilim, you should be Christian, you should be Atheist, you should be Musilim, you are stupid for being Chrsitian, Muslim, etc. You get the idea. I can go by the local mosque and appreciate their art based on religion. I can also go into the local Greek Orthodox Cathedral and appreciate the art based on religious symbols. All that to say, fanatacism and ignorance are the problems, not religion in itself. This country must not become a theocracy under the constitution (that and the folks who run theocracies seem to all have screws loose over the centuries :) ) But that doesn’t mean one has to white wash religion or secularism from all sight. The fact is that this country was founded by folks who were puritans etc. We can’t change that fact and when used in a historical context, so what? Are we going to erase al imagages of pilgrims becuase they represent a religious belief system? That would deny our heritage. Luckily the folks who set up the country were a mixed bag of Ben Franklin secularists and John Adamas religious types and they saw that religion and government made for bad fruitcake.

Thinking every religious symbol on the side of a library is an attack on the first amendment is just as silly as thinking you need to have a velvet Jesus painting in every court room.

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Well put Mr. Gump!

TG