Democrat/Republican
Kingfish has a point - let’s start a new thread on this topic.
I looked up the Governors of the 12 states of the South. There are only 4 Democrats, so the Republicans have 75%.
If you look at the 24 Senators of the 12 states, only 6 are Democrats! 75% for the Republicans.
If you look at the Presidential elections of 2000 & 2004, Bush easily took all the states.
So there’s REAL evidence that the South has switched from being Democratic to Republican.
Sorry ksdb but you don’t have any facts to support your argument. You lose. Will you acknowledge the FACTS - that’s the question?
I want to see the voter registration party affiliations of white people in the south starting around 1964 or so through the middle 70’s, and how the voter registrations shifted of this demographic. That’s when the migration from dem to repub took place and who did the migrating. There was no migration of black voters to the republican party, and the mass voter registrations of minorities that took place after the equal rights amendment went into affect could counter the raw data when race is not taken into account since they almost all became democrats. Joe says it didn’t happen. It’s easy to say it didn’t happen when looking at the raw numbers.
By the way I need to correct myself. I have used in many posts Equal Rights Amendment when I am takling about The Voting Rights Act of 1965. They aren’t the same thing of course, though they have caused similar backlash ocassionally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act
phoo - don’t confuse us with the facts 
So were you serious - your dad actually took you to a KKK meeting? How did see through it all & realize racism was wrong?
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| So were you serious - your dad actually took you to a KKK meeting? How did see through it all & realize racism was wrong? |
Absolutely serious. The Klan leaders would be up on a flatbed truck out in the middle of a field in there white or red robes. They’d burn a huge cross as part of the ceremony. The area was rural Pitt County in NC, near Belvoir where my father’s tobacco farm was. Most folks that attended were not members of the Klan - my father was not - but were sympathizers. I saw a lot of faces I knew, and a lot covered up that I’ll never know.
At my age (9 or so) I could have gone one way or the other. My family, except a very few, stayed very racist and still are. Through the years, those memories have made me become more and more anti-racist, to the point of being very intolerant of racism and as a result intolerant of those that seem to be a little more than pig headed about other issues.
I don’t know how I saw through it - what made me see that it was wrong. They were telling me white was right. Maybe because my nanny at the time was a wonderful sweet black lady that would do anything for anyone, or the lovely black lady that cleaned my mother’s house and cooked our meals was not allowed to sit at the table when she ate lunch. She was told where she could eat, other there by the phone on a little stand. My father has “colored” and “white” restrooms and water fountains in his business (he was farmer - he also had cucumber grading station where the separation of colors was quite obvious). It bothered me the way he addressed all black men “boy” regardless of age or status. For whatever reason it seemed wrong and anti-Christian, though the Klan was using the Bible as the basis for their teachings.
This was the way it was in the early 60’s. Most of these have become long standing stereotypes of the white deep south, but they were very evident in the area I am from.
By the way, the movie that best portrays the south at the time is Mississippi Burning. That movie, especially the opening scene with the black and white film clips is very real. It’s not a very flattering view of the south.
Of course, not all white people are or were that way and racism isn’t limited to the south or just whites.
That’s a great story. You were indeed lucky to see right from wrong, given all the influences you had. Man - I lived such a sheltered life as a kid & I only learned about rascism & prejudice only from watching the TV & reading about it. I don’t recall my parents putting anyone down based on race (except my dad didn’t like lazy people). My crazy great-uncle used to spout off about Jewish people but I didn’t really know what he was talking about (I didn’t even know any Jewish people until I was in high school and they seemed like everyone to me).
Well, I see ksdb hasn’t refuted the facts we presented to him. kdsb - finally admit that you are wrong?
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 20 2006,17:31) |
| Kingfish has a point - let’s start a new thread on this topic. I looked up the Governors of the 12 states of the South. There are only 4 Democrats, so the Republicans have 75%. If you look at the 24 Senators of the 12 states, only 6 are Democrats! 75% for the Republicans. If you look at the Presidential elections of 2000 & 2004, Bush easily took all the states. So there’s REAL evidence that the South has switched from being Democratic to Republican. Sorry ksdb but you don’t have any facts to support your argument. You lose. Will you acknowledge the FACTS - that’s the question? |
I have made no arguments in this thread. Plus I’ve never said that Republicans haven’t made significant gains in the south.
Second, my arguments in the other thread were in response to your ever-shifting claims:
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 19 2006,18:53) |
| Our point is that the South shifted to Republican domination after the 60’s. |
I showed that after the 60s, there was little change. You came back with a narrower parameter.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 20 2006,11:50) |
| What about over the last 10 years? How many Democratic Senators are now from the South - very few aren’t they? |
What happened during the last 10 years has no tie to the 60s, to Dixiecrats or to Nixon’s southern strategy. I already acknowledged other influences:
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| There’s more evidence that the population and general culture have changed rather than Democrats changing parties. |
Yes, the Democrats have lost their stranglehold on the south. The Dixiecrats have died off and more northerners have relocated to the south, plus the Democrat party is now much more liberal and more on the fringe than it was in the 60s. It has alienated southern voters as much or more than the anything the Republicans have done to “convert” them.
You may now continue on with this thread about things that were not being disputed.
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| Yes, the Democrats have lost their stranglehold on the south. |
Thanks for admitting that you are wrong. The change started in the 60’s just as phoo & I have been saying.
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| …plus the Democrat party is now much more liberal and more on the fringe than it was in the 60s. |
This is complete & utter bullsh*t. Clinton was a moderate as best, and viewed as a conservative by Democrats. There’s no one more “liberal” than McGovern & we haven’t seen anyone like him since 1972. Your problem is that the Republicans have become SO conservative that you think moderates are liberal. Too funny ksdb - keep us laughing.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 21 2006,12:04) | ||
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Thanks for admitting that you are wrong. The change started in the 60’s just as phoo & I have been saying. |
I wasn’t wrong at all. I showed that nothing changed in the 60s. You’ve only shown a change that can be attributed to the most recent election.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 21 2006,12:04) | ||
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This is complete & utter bullsh*t. Clinton was a moderate as best, and viewed as a conservative by Democrats. |
You just proved me right. You’ve shown that the party considered this one politician to be conservative, which means the rest of the party had to be extremely liberal to begin with. Good job.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 21 2006,12:04) |
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There’s no one more “liberal” than McGovern & we haven’t seen anyone like him since 1972. |
Just Howard Dean, Jo.Ke., Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Harry Reid, etc., etc.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 21 2006,12:04) |
| Your problem is that the Republicans have become SO conservative that you think moderates are liberal. Too funny ksdb - keep us laughing. |
I made no claims about moderates. You proved me right by showing that the party was more liberal than IFP Clinton. Thanks for the laughs.
I have nothing to add to the argument here but I will say as a southerner myself, I see a LOT of people around me shifting to a more “middle of the road” stance. Everybody is getting sick and tired of the partisan bull that has become the norm these days. I can only hope…
D
In your dreams Joe. I’ve proven no point of yours - Clinton was a moderate by all analysis.
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| Just Howard Dean, Jo.Ke., Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Harry Reid, etc., etc. |
Since you’re making the claim, you need to show why these guys are liberal. Are they too liberal for supporting a raise in the minimum wage, are they liberal for opposing the war in Iraq (Kerry & Reid did vote for it), are they liberal for not wanting tax cuts on the richest & for bringing down deficit, are they liberal for leaving the issue of gay marriage to the states & NOT support a constitutional admendment?
No - the issue is that you Republicans have gone way over to the right.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 21 2006,12:44) |
| In your dreams Joe. I’ve proven no point of yours - Clinton was a moderate by all analysis. |
It wasn’t in my dreams, it was according to your own words. Now you’re backpedaling without showing substantiation.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 21 2006,12:44) | ||
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Since you’re making the claim, you need to show why these guys are liberal. Are they’re liberal for supporting a raise in the minimum wage, are they liberal for opposing the war in Iraq (Kerry & Reid did vote for it), are they liberal for not wanting taxes on the richest & for bringing down deficit? |
Somebody’s typing faster than they are thinking. Howard Dean doesn’t want taxes on the richest?? LOL.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 21 2006,12:44) |
| No - the issue is that you Republicans have gone way over to the right. |
I thought the issue was political analysis of southern states. How does this relate and where’s your proof.
| Quote (Diogenes @ July 21 2006,12:43) |
| I have nothing to add to the argument here but I will say as a southerner myself, I see a LOT of people around me shifting to a more "middle of the road" stance. Everybody is getting sick and tired of the partisan bull that has become the norm these days. I can only hope... D |
People shifting to the middle of the road explains why more Republicans are starting to get elected in the south. The old Democrat politics have lost favor.
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| Howard Dean doesn’t want taxes on the richest?? LOL |
Show me where Dean supports Bushes tax cuts. You’re the one typing faster than you think.
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| I thought the issue was political analysis of southern states. How does this relate and where’s your proof. |
It was until you changed the topic (a favorite trick of yours). My proof are your statements & the historical record, something you refuse to look at correctly.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 21 2006,12:55) | ||
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Show me where Dean supports Bushes tax cuts. You’re the one typing faster than you think. |
You said Dean didn’t want taxes on the richest. However, if he supported tax cuts, that would make Dean conservative. Since he doesn’t (as you imply), then you’ve just admitted that Dean is a raging liberal. Thanks for making my point for me. This is too easy.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 21 2006,12:55) | ||
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It was until you changed the topic (a favorite trick of yours). My proof are your statements & the historical record, something you refuse to look at correctly. |
You didn’t show a historical record. You’ve only shown current stats. I showed the historical record and it supported my claims. Second, I didn’t change the topic; you went off on a tangent and I tried to reel you back in.
You know I mistyped on the tax cut issue - I’ve corrected the post.
Clinton was a moderate - everyone knows that.
The switch from Democratic to Republican in the South was slow and it started in the 60’s. The Civil Rights Act was a liberal act, as it our whole democracy, Consitution & Declaration of Independence. All are liberal acts.
The Democrat’s are losing because of an organized attack on all liberals & liberal thinking. Also from an organized political movement by the Christian right. This attack & orgnaization started in earnest in the 80’s. People will hopefully realize that they are being lied to by right & will switch back. I believe that trend has already started. It will take a while before it adds up to big wins for the Democrats.
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| People shifting to the middle of the road explains why more Republicans are starting to get elected in the south. The old Democrat politics have lost favor. |
Jesus Christ Man…Get a grip. Think before you speak.
You are the one that said this was a myth. You are the one that pointed out it never happened. You are the one that posted lists of Democrat politicians still elected.
I’m the one that pointed out that the old Southern Democrat (George Wallace) ways caused those that supported them to migrate to the Republican party.
You are the one that said I was wrong, in spite of my personal experiences.
If it’s a myth then what you just said can’t possibly be true.
Of course, as always, I may have misread “It’s a myth” when you really meant to say "It’s not a myth."
It’s so obvious now. Not only are you Joe S. Montgomery, you are the guy posting as Dewey Oxburger. That explains a lot.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ July 21 2006,13:30) |
| You know I mistyped on the tax cut issue - I've corrected the post. Clinton was a moderate - everyone knows that. The switch from Democratic to Republican in the South was slow and it started in the 60's. The Civil Rights Act was a liberal act, as it our whole democracy, Consitution & Declaration of Independence. All are liberal acts. The Democrat's are losing because of an organized attack on all liberals & liberal thinking. Also from an organized political movement by the Christian right. This attack & orgnaization started in earnest in the 80's. People will hopefully realize that they are being lied to by right & will switch back. I believe that trend has already started. It will take a while before it adds up to big wins for the Democrats. |
Yes, and despite mistyping, you continue to reinforce the reality that the Democrat party is liberal.
Clinton (whom you brought up this time) was all over the road. You call it moderate but I call it noncommittal, which tends to be a liberal trait.
You've shown nothing to support that Democrats switched to being Republicans in the 1960s. Interestingly, by percentage, more Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act than Democrats, so calling it a liberal act is extremely misleading because you would have to call the 1960s Republican liberals. The other stuff is nonsense about our "whole democracy" being liberal.
Pinning the blame Democrat losses on "organized attacks" is pretty much an admission of political incompetence. Democrats don't clearly stand for anything. The whole 2004 campaign was filled with empty slogans like "We can do better" and "I've got a plan," but there were never any concrete details. Only the most weak-minded people are going to vote for empty, vague and ambiguous slogans.
Are Democrats liberal?
Even John Dean, a Barry Goldwater Conservative, says that Barry Goldwater Conservative’s are now considered Left of Center.
Guess that makes you a full fledged facist in todays political world KSDB.
KF