RMS Meter

I noticed with the new v6 it has an RMS meter along with the playback meter. What is it? Any info and what it relates to?.

Paco

The following statements are offered so that they may be corrected by someone who actually has knowledge of RMS -
Being as no one has responded yet leads me to believe we are not the only ones who do not understand the RMS meters. As I have been led to believe, it measures the “average” power of the sound. If this amount is too high it can over load a system even though the Peaks are not in the clip range.
Paco, To get more information go to wickipedia.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power#Actual_ratings_compared
Read the articals and then report back what you figure out - when it comes to math, I get lost when some thing more than a + or - sign is used.
Bax

Thanks Bax, I’m more confused than ever now.

I’ve decided that it means, :angry:
R=Really
M=Must
S=See

The bouncing lights for what ever reason, maybe they change colors during X-mas?

PACO ???

They used to, but for legal reasons were turned off.
Bax

Paco,

My understanding is that the RMS meter mimicks the way the human ear hears the sound. You might see that the meter’s response time is 300 milliseconds…that’s as opposed to the 5 or 10ms that the peak meter is supposed to reflect.

It reflects the ballistics of an “old fashioned” analogue meter, more or less.

Someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

Fuggle

That would make sense. I hope you are right, it makes it possible to use the tool.
Bax :agree:

Print this out and commit it to memory - your memory not your pooterz.

Thanks Poppa, interesting read. :)

PACO

Enlightening read, Poppa.

Of course: “RMS” = “average”.

What I found interesting is that the article states that to accurately reflect loudness, it’d need a delay of 500ms or more…300ms is too quick. It also states that the 300ms of VU meters was designed to “look good” for the spoken word.

Flavio’s made the RMS meter’s response time variable. I’m going to change mine to 500ms. I like the aesthetic of RMS meters…especially as NTrack makes a little “red mark” at the top of the timeline to indicate clips.

Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Sep. 21 2008, 9:19 PM)

Print this out and commit it to memory - your memory not your pooterz.

Yer kiddin' right? (rolls eyes) :whistle:

Geez Poppa I can't remember what I had fer supper last night! ???

Did I post that? When?

So; where are the RMS meters?
Are they the two extra (outboard) Output Vu-Meters that began showing up with v 6.?
If so, how did you figure out what they were??
(My biggest problems with N-track is the fact that the Users’ Manual seems still to be describing version 4.something …)

Quote: (bax3 @ Sep. 21 2008, 1:33 PM)

The following statements are offered so that they may be corrected by someone who actually has knowledge of RMS -
Being as no one has responded yet leads me to believe we are not the only ones who do not understand the RMS meters. As I have been led to believe, it measures the "average" power of the sound. If this amount is too high it can over load a system even though the Peaks are not in the clip range.
Paco, To get more information go to wickipedia.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power#Actual_ratings_compared
Read the articals and then report back what you figure out - when it comes to math, I get lost when some thing more than a + or - sign is used.
Bax

To clarify....

Peak meter = measures the peak level of the signal at a point in time. Not necessarily a good measure of true loudness as fast transients can not seem that loud, yet will peak very high. Peak metering is most useful when try to determine if clipping is happening in a system.

RMS = Root mean squared. In layman's terms, the average level of a selection. For instance, you COULD measure the RMS of an entire song or RMS of 10 seconds or 500ms... that is what is known as the window size and determines how useful the RMS meter is for the purpose at hand. 500ms is probably a pretty good starting point.

To give you an idea as to how to use each... When I mix I use the K scale next to the peak meter. So I generally will mix to K14. So if my meter is hovering around 0 in K14, I know my average level is around -17db which is considered a pretty good combination of loudness and dynamics. However, you can just imagine the offset on a traditional RMS meter and hovering around -17db on a standard RMS meter is the same as 0db on K14. (-17db because K adds a 3db offset so that a sine wave at 0db measures the same at peak and at RMS.)

Last piece of minutia... K is a unified system of metering and SPL level. Therefore it requires monitor calibration to be used properly. 0db on the K scale = 83db SPL in the room at listening position. That doesn't mean you can't use K metering without calibration... you just don't get the full benefit of the system.