Schiavo autopsy report backs husband

THAT sounds like a plan !

Quote (Mr Soul @ June 16 2005,15:31)
Right-wing wacko's are lost. They will not mend their ways. They will fight till they win or they are defeated.

...and maybe, one day the clouds will part, and the sun will shine brightly down upon you as you finally realize that you are the 180-degree equivalent of those that you seem to most despise.
Quote (Bubbagump @ June 16 2005,20:21)
This was no "painful starvation in the desert" sort of thing. I personally see it sort of like putting an animal to sleep.

I don't think that anyone can say with certainty whether she felt anything or not. The humane thing to do in a case like this would be to assume that the person does feel pain, and take measures to ease the potential suffering.

This was not like "putting an animal to sleep". This was like locking you dog in the closet with no food or water until he is dead. It was inhumane.

Like you said, our pets get lethal injection and die peacefully; why did we not do the same for her? Starving her (dehydrating, same thing) to death was just plain barbaric.

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I don’t think that anyone can say with certainty whether she felt anything or not.

The neurologist who performed the autopsy said that she probably didn’t feel any pain. The doctors before she died said she probably wouldn’t feel any pain. G*d ####, she probably didn’t feel any pain!!! I accept these experts.

Listen I apologize for the rhetoric but I knew IN MY HEART that my side was right on the Terri Schiavo issue; I knew that the right-wing has gone too far in this country. I and many others are getting really feed up with it! We’re tired of the spin, the lies and the lack of listening to science, medical experts and judges. In simple, we’re tired of the relentless attacks the right-wing has been imposing on us and what they did here.

The Terri Schiavo incident was a tangible manifestation of how far the right has gone in this country. It’s a symbol of what they’re willing to do to get their way & to maintain their power. I can’t think of any incident close to this one that the left has ever done in this country. I challenge someone to find one.
Quote (Mr Soul @ June 17 2005,11:34)
The neurologist who performed the autopsy said that she probably didn't feel any pain. The doctors before she died said she probably wouldn't feel any pain. G*d ####, she probably didn't feel any pain!!! I accept these experts.

"Probably" being the key word here. If you insist on killing her, the only humane thing to do would have been lethal injection, not slow starvation.

You.
Are.
Wrong.

Now let's move on, eh?

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We’re tired of the spin, the lies and the lack of listening to science, medical experts and judges.


it’s not a matter of not offering attention to these things, only a matter of which we choose to give our attention…

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…how far the right has gone in this country. It’s a symbol of what they’re willing to do to get their way


and those on the left have no interest in power whatsoever?.. c’mon, now!.. i believe that every one of those clowns in washington is there due to a want for power… i even believe that badnarik was a power hog, just that i agree with more of his political points than others…

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I can’t think of any incident close to this one that the left has ever done in this country.


if someone offered up a response to this, would you review it objectively?.. i seriously doubt it…

isaac

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If you insist on killing her, the only humane thing to do would have been lethal injection, not slow starvation.

First of all, you are mis-characterizing what happened, i.e., no one killed her, they simply allowed her to die following what her husband felt were her wishes. That was the issue here in the Terri Schiavo case PERIOD.

Secondly, are you suggesting the we legalize euthanasia? Because I definitely do NOT believe in that. That would be morally & ethically wrong IMO.

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The neurologist who performed the autopsy said that she probably didn’t feel any pain. The doctors before she died said she probably wouldn’t feel any pain. G*d ####, she probably didn’t feel any pain!!! I accept these experts.


Like John said - probably.

What if she did? I’ve got a sneaking suspicion it would be like the reported cases of waking up under a general anethesic - feeling it all but unable to tell anyone how much it hurts.

Personally, I’m unsure and I’ll admit to it happily, but would you bet a peaceful painless death for one where they let you die from starvation/dehydration on it? I dunno what dying like or what’s on the other side, but at this stage of things I’d rather it wasn’t slow and I wasn’t there for it. Go on, ask yourself, is that what you would have wanted for yourself?

While there is a difference between euthenasia and letting someone die for whatever reason, I think that it’s splitting hairs in this case.

Goverment and church should keep out of what is a very personal issue for many families. Fuckit, I’m bowing out.

BTW, rugby is big here, but probably not as big as the AFL (australian rules) which regularly fills out the MCG for a single game.

Willy.

When this case first appeared, my comment here was, “This is a tough, tough issue with no easy answer.” I do wish that the Government would keep their beaks out of personal things like this though. It only complicates an already BAD situation. There would have been outcry even if the Democrats had been the big dogs. I am sure of that. Let the people decide what their wishes are in cases like these. Make a Living Will and try to do it in a manner that is as bullet-proof as you can possibly make it. That’s where the Schiavo’s messed up. One cannot predict what will happen down the road.

If it had been me, I would have wanted a quick, merciful end. However, asking someone else to basically take your life does place a difficult burden on THEM. Unless they are nutcakes. Um… tough, tough issue…

TG

Quote (Mr Soul @ June 17 2005,11:54)
First of all, you are mis-characterizing what happened, i.e., no one killed her, they simply allowed her to die following what her husband felt were her wishes. That was the issue here in the Terri Schiavo case PERIOD.

Secondly, are you suggesting the we legalize euthanasia? Because I definitely do NOT believe in that. That would be morally & ethically wrong IMO.

Denying nutrition to a living being is not "allowing them to die". Starving someone to death is euthanasia. This is not the same thing a someone that is being forced to breath by a respirator; she was breathing fine on her own, and *only required nutrition to live*.

She was killed in a cowardly manner by people that were too afraid to cross the line into legalised euthanasia. Instead they make up pretty phrases like "allowing her to die" and "she's going through the dying process" and endless other bullshit phrases that are designed to distract from that fact that they actually and truly killed her by slowly starving her to death.

Even dogs get a nice sleepy-time death injection.

Do I want to legalize euthanasia? I don't know... But I do see how it can lead to many dangerous things - Who is to have the power to decide who lives and dies? Sure we start with the brain-dead people this week, after all nobody would want to live like that, right? Next week we go after the severly handicapped; not the ones that work the door at Wal-Mart, the ones that are ded-ridden and must be fed by hand and have thier diapers changed even though they are 35 years old... after all, who would want to live like that? We'd be doing them a favor, yes? Who's next? How about we go after those Wal-mart-greeter-level retards? Gee, I sure wouldn't want to be like them, all retarded and stuff. Let's do them a favor, they'd thank us for it if they only knew how bad off they were...

And so on... I guess you get my point.

:cool:

Let me got out of a libm - it is very UNLIKELY that she felt any pain. Her brain

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She was killed in a cowardly manner by people that were too afraid to cross the line into legalised euthanasia.

How can you say that??? Euthanasia is against the LAW!!! Dr. “Death” is in jail. If we are talking on a philosophical level, then I agree with you, euthanasia would MAYBE have been the more humane thing to have done.

On the contrary, Michael Schiavo was no coward, in fact, he was a hero IMO. The cowardly thing to have done would have been not the fight for what he believed in. Instead, he hired a lawyer, spent considerable amount of his settlement on fighting this. To me, that was the heroic thing to have done.

Indeed, there was no “good” end to this situation, but the conclusion was the “best” thing that could have happened.
Quote (Mr Soul @ June 17 2005,14:22)
If we are talking on a philosophical level, then I agree with you, euthanasia would MAYBE have been the more humane thing to have done.

You're hopeless... lethal injection is "MAYBE" more humane than slowly starving someone to death?!?

Do me a favor, next time you have a dog (or cat) that you need to put to sleep, just lock it in the closet without any food. Don't worry, it's the right thing to do. Right?

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You’re hopeless… lethal injection is “MAYBE” more humane than slowly starving someone to death?!?

John, John, John - you continuely misunderstand me. I’m saying that lethal injection would be OK if it were legal, but it isn’t (that’s what I mean when I said philosophically). If I had said “hypothetically” instead of “philosophically”, would you have understood me? Somehow I guess you still wouldn’t.

And when I used the word MAYBE, it was in the context of the discussion, i.e., I don’t think Terri Schiavo felt any pain, THEREFORE lethal injection would not necessarily be more humane. That’s all I’m trying to say.

PS - Jeb Bush is re-opening the investigation into her heart attack - Gov. Bush Seeks New Inquiry Into Schiavo Case.

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I don’t think Terri Schiavo felt any pain, THEREFORE lethal injection would not necessarily be more humane.


But we can’t ever know that can we? Better safe than sorry :confused:
Quote (John @ June 17 2005,11:20)
Quote (Bubbagump @ June 16 2005,20:21)
This was no "painful starvation in the desert" sort of thing. I personally see it sort of like putting an animal to sleep.



This was not like "putting an animal to sleep". This was like locking you dog in the closet with no food or water until he is dead. It was inhumane.

Like you said, our pets get lethal injection and die peacefully; why did we not do the same for her? Starving her (dehydrating, same thing) to death was just plain barbaric.

My Feeling is you don't really know what it is like until you live through something similar. Sitting in my in-laws house watching my father in law wilt away for two weeks with only morphine, was pretty tough, but what it did do was allow my wife and all family members a chance to say their goodbyes. The hospice people brought papers with all of the details of what would take place and it was pretty amazing.

How can we be for sure that lethal injection is humane and that no pain is felt?
Nobody would truly know until they tried it.

Quote (jeromee @ June 18 2005,00:27)
How can we be for sure that lethal injection is humane and that no pain is felt?
Nobody would truly know until they tried it.

From what I understand, lethal injection (as used in executions) is a combination of drugs: the first is to put the patient (condemmed, whatever) to “sleep”, and the next is to stop the heart and end life. It can be safely assumed that since the person is asleep, they do not feel pain.

When animals are “put to sleep”, they are injected and then they lay down basically close their eyes and die. If they were in pain, one would think that there woudl be some amount of yelping and crying, but that’s not the case.

Take the same animal and lock him in the closet without food until he dies, and you will hear quite a bit of moaning and crying from the animal until it has starved to death.


I’m sorry about your father in law, hopefully the morphine allowed him to pass without too much pain.

Quote (Mr Soul @ June 17 2005,17:14)
And when I used the word MAYBE, it was in the context of the discussion, i.e., I don’t think Terri Schiavo felt any pain, THEREFORE lethal injection would not necessarily be more humane. That’s all I’m trying to say.

I think I have come to the root of our disagreement here:

You:
Feeding tube == respirator

Me:
Feeding tube != respirator

I have no problem disconnecting someone from a respirator (a device that forces the body to breathe) when there is no chance for recovery. However, I don’t put a feeding tube into the same category as a respirator, it only supplies nutrition, it doesn’t force the body to digest food.

Let’s agree to disagree on this one, eh?
:cool:

I have to agreee with…myself.

This shurely was an inhumane way for someone to die, regardless of your ethical/religous/political backround.

I’m watching my great grandmother go now…morphine drip, and they say she’s in no pain. She was supposed to be dead a week ago according tothe doctors…but she’s a fighter! God bless her!
:)
As far as I can tell, the husbands heart was in the right place. God will look into his heart and judge him accordingly, NOT ME!
Her family came off as media hounds, looking to notoriety, and possibly a movie deal to me. Again, God will look into their hearts as well, and judge them likewise I’m shure! :D

Take care guys…
and keep shinin’

jerm

Gov. Bush ends Schiavo death inquiry.

[QUOTE]TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - Gov. Jeb Bush has declared an end to the state’s inquiry into Terri Schiavo’s collapse 15 years ago, after Florida’s state attorney said there was no evidence that criminal activity was involved.

Once again, the ultra right-wing loses. What the gov & the politicians did in this case, should OUTRAGE all of you, regardless of your political leaning. Sen. Frist was WAY out of line making the remarks he made about Schiavo’s condition. I hope his changes of running for President are done with. What he, the Bush bro’s, DeLay et al. did were the result of caving in to an extreme right-wing of the Republican party.

Quote (Mr Soul @ July 08 2005,12:42)
Once again, the ultra right-wing loses.

The fact that you continue to politicize this poor woman’s death absolutely disgusts me.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

:angry: