song speed control dont work

Our song speed control doesnt seem to do anything… how do you use it?
& the time stretch thingy just crashes ntrack so we ve never used them but now we need to so were a bit stuck…were using ntrack 4 still
anybody got any ideas

thanks

There were builds way back in v4 that I believe had issues with the Speed Control…



If you own
codes for later versions of n-Track, I would suggest updating your builds to the latest version of n-Track that you have codes for…
Good place to start… bright lights tonight…







Bill…

there is some place in Ntrack where you can set how Ntrack deals with pitch and speed.

If you are using the song speed setting to speed anything up other than a beat you are going to notice the chipmunk effect on vocals and pitch changing of the notes in the song.

There are other apps out there that do a much better job of speeding up a file with a mixed down file instead which used a lot less CPU than trying to do it across multiple tracks in a DAW.

dontcare

thanks guys
our version is so old id be verysurprised if we still have the reg code Bill, but at least we now know why its never worked
we have treid to do it in audacity but something is going wrong & sarah wonders if theres some maths somewhere we need to do

what we want is to take a mix ofthe backing track & slow it down
then record the vocals with it
then we take the vocals & speed em up by what we slowed the backing down
then we can put them back into ntrack with the song

but it doesnt work right… its a bit over my head but sarah wonders when we speed it back up if we need some calcalation to work out the amount because if we slow it down & then speed it up by the same amount its the wrong lenght & pitch
i know this all sounds a bit mad but their is a reason for it

Tina, try this:

Transcribe


this will allow you to slow down your backing track and record the vocal, then speed up the vocal to match the original without changing pitch on either,
but get your project done within 30 days or you’ll have to pay to register it.

dontcare

thanks for that dontcare but sarahs not convinced it will work if we cant already do it in audacity…
& it really doesnt work weve tried it several times
we would realy like to change the speed not just thetempo shes convinced that slowing the backing down by say 5% & doing what we want to do we must have to speed the vocal back up by a difrent amount to get it back to the right speed

Not trying to stir the pot, Reaper. Dead easy for this and the Elastique 2 Pro alg is exceptional.

I’m still confused at to why a DAW (like audacity,Ntrack, reaper) has to be involved in this to begin with…when there are so many stand alone apps out there that do file conversions better (and without changing pitch)…

but hey, to each there own I supposes.

dontcare

Quote: (bright lights tonight @ Jan. 08 2011, 1:12 PM)

we would realy like to change the speed not just thetempo shes convinced that slowing the backing down by say 5% & doing what we want to do we must have to speed the vocal back up by a difrent amount to get it back to the right speed

what Bubba is talking about in his geek code talk is the alg (algorithm) of Elastique 2 Pro, which in layman's terms is the strength and accuracy of calculation formula that changes file time.
What's being said although indirectly is that if a program has a poor algorithm it will preform inaccurately therefor giving you a different result in slowing one file down to speeding another up although the 5% in both directions could be the same when initiated, so yeah, with inaccurate algorithm you would have to speed a file up 5.1% (or however much the calculation is off) to compensate, and to achieve the same speed you started out with.

I'm not sure what you mean by changing speed and not just the tempo or how you are finding that two terms are anything different or separated from each other in this scenario.

dontcare
Quote: (dontcare @ Jan. 09 2011, 8:43 AM)

Quote: (bright lights tonight @ Jan. 08 2011, 1:12 PM)

we would realy like to change the speed not just thetempo shes convinced that slowing the backing down by say 5% & doing what we want to do we must have to speed the vocal back up by a difrent amount to get it back to the right speed

what Bubba is talking about in his geek code talk is the alg (algorithm) of Elastique 2 Pro, which in layman's terms is the strength and accuracy of calculation formula that changes file time.
What's being said although indirectly is that if a program has a poor algorithm it will preform inaccurately therefor giving you a different result in slowing one file down to speeding another up although the 5% in both directions could be the same when initiated, so yeah, with inaccurate algorithm you would have to speed a file up 5.1% (or however much the calculation is off) to compensate, and to achieve the same speed you started out with.

dontcare

Oh well.
I PM'd BLT to mention the "other" DAW - seemed a bit rude to mention it here.
Never mind.

Actually DC I don't think you are correct in your explanation of inaccurate algorithms - 5% and 5.1%.

Speeding up and slowing down is easy - just throw the samples out at a different rate to that intended.
Job done.
Only "algorithm" required is a simple calculation to work out how much faster or slower.

Changing pitch, on the other hand, is more complicated and requires more work.
A "good" algorithm will sound "better" than a "poor" algorithm - but the trade off is the speed of doing the calculation.

Quote:


I'm not sure what you mean by changing speed and not just the tempo or how you are finding that two terms are anything different or separated from each other in this scenario.


I'm not sure I understand what you don't understand. One is pitch the other is speed. In a "good" DAW you can adjust the two separately. Are you thinking about the good-old-tape-days when slowing down the tape also reduced the pitch?

i thouht speed changed tempo & pitch & we want to change both together

basicaly weve recorded a song in the wrong key for alli our singer & its also very fast with lots of lyric to fit in
we used to do this on our 4 track so easily by turning the speed control down recording then turning it back to normal

if we could slow a mix of baking track down lowering the pitch a little it would be great
we record the vocal & then bring it back to normal & put it into the song

we do have reaper but are a little scared of it at the moment :laugh:

Quote: (bright lights tonight @ Jan. 09 2011, 6:47 AM)

what we want is to take a mix ofthe backing track & slow it down
then record the vocals with it
then we take the vocals & speed em up by what we slowed the backing
down
then we can put them back into ntrack with the song

So all you really want to do is change the key (pitch) of the song to make it more singable?
Speed is nothing to do with it in that case.

Done it loads of times.

Use one of the other recommended methods above to drop the pitch.
Pull the new wav into n-track and record the vocals.

If
you want to go back up to the original key you could then just export the new vocal, pitch shift if back up and then insert it back into your original (unshifted) project.

Or you could leave it all in the new key... might take your ears a brain a short while to adjust to the new key but it will do so.
Quote: (bright lights tonight @ Jan. 09 2011, 9:02 AM)

i thouht speed changed tempo & pitch & we want to change both together


basicaly weve recorded a song in the wrong key for alli our singer & its also very fast with lots of lyric to fit in
we used to do this on our 4 track so easily by turning the speed control down

recording then turning it back to normal

if we could slow a mix of
baking track down lowering the pitch a little it would be great
we record the vocal & then bring it back to normal & put it into the song

we do have reaper but are a little scared of it at the moment
:laugh:

Yes, you got it.
Quote: (Mark A @ Jan. 08 2011, 2:01 PM)

Quote: (dontcare @ Jan. 09 2011, 8:43 AM)

[quote=bright lights tonight,Jan. 08 2011, 1:12 PM]we would realy like to change the speed not just thetempo shes convinced that slowing the backing down by say 5% & doing what we want to do we must have to speed the vocal back up by a difrent amount to get it back to the right speed

Quote:


I'm not sure what you mean by changing speed and not just the tempo or how you are finding that two terms are anything different or separated from each other in this scenario.


I'm not sure I understand what you don't understand.
One is pitch the other is speed.
In a "good" DAW you can adjust the two separately.
Are you thinking about the good-old-tape-days when slowing down the tape also reduced the pitch?

what I don't understand is what pitch has to do with it...since it was not mentioned in my quote of Tina or my own post.

I do understand you are trying to give Tina a better understanding about these calculations than me, which is appreciated, but I retain that mine was better than just typing "alg" and leaving expecting her to understand what it was..... :D

dontcare
Quote: (dontcare @ Jan. 09 2011, 9:12 AM)

Quote: (Mark A @ Jan. 08 2011, 2:01 PM)

Quote: (dontcare @ Jan. 09 2011, 8:43 AM)

[quote=bright lights tonight,Jan. 08 2011, 1:12 PM]we would realy like to change the speed not just thetempo shes convinced that slowing the backing down by say 5% & doing what we want to do we must have to speed the vocal back up by a difrent amount to get it back to the right speed

Quote:


I'm not sure what you mean by changing speed and not just the tempo or how you are finding that two terms are anything different or separated from each other in this scenario.


I'm not sure I understand what you don't understand.
One is pitch the other is speed.
In a "good" DAW you can adjust the two separately.
Are you thinking about the good-old-tape-days when slowing down the tape also reduced the pitch?

what I don't understand is what pitch has to do with it...since it was not mentioned in my quote of Tina or my own post.

I do understand you are trying to give Tina a better understanding about these calculations than me, which is appreciated, but I retain that mine was better than just typing alg and leaving expecting her to understand what it was..... :D

dontcare

Ahhh, that's because I'm learning to read properly tomorrow. I was answering one post while thinking about another one I'd just read. My bad.
Quote: (dontcare @ Jan. 09 2011, 9:12 AM)

but I retain that mine was better than just typing "alg" and leaving expecting her to understand what it was..... :D

Definitely.

Hey no problem MArk, I figured there was some sort of crossfire there… :laugh:

It seems Tina is wanting to achieve two different things.

1. change the pitch so it can be sung easier.
2. change the speed so it can be sung easier.

As you have pointed out these things can be done separately or together, on accident or on purpose with varying results depending on what programs are used.

The stand alone app I suggested would change the speed in both directions with no issues, pretty accurate IMHO, however it would not change the pitch so another app or plug would needed to change pitch without effecting speed.

TO do this in Ntrack I would suggest this method.
take each file, (bass, drums, guitar, etc etc) and change the pitch on them by putting the pitch changing Plug in on the Master track and mixing them down individually muting the other tracks respectfully.
Then you could import all of those files and slow them each down by doing the same thing for each track, separate mix down of each track.
Now you could start a new project bring each track into it and do the vocal at the slower speed and different pitch.
Then you could take all the files and either do a mixdown at a faster speed (that would give you more mixing control) or THEN mixdown each one again to the faster speed.

This would give you similar results to what you were doing with the tape deck.
All the files would undergo the same change…and when you speed them ALL back up it may not be at the exact same speed as the original but at least they ALL would be at the same speed for mixing the final take.

dontcare

And see, I got yer rating up a few decimals too (it takes a while). But only if you and UJ promise to get along nice :D

Since I don’t care if speaking the truth is ‘rude’ or not… :laugh:

Such work is not only easier in Reaper versus n-Track + outside app, it will sound better.

1. Reaper treats each ‘item’ independently is desired. So a track can have one audio ‘clip’ (item) on it or dozens. Each one of those items can be pitched up/down, sped up/down independently of the others… or not. Select the items you want, a few mouse clicks later… done.

2. The algo Bubba mentioned that Reaper uses is the same used by Melodyne, Ableton Live, Steinberg, etc… So it IS one of, if not THE BEST algo for time/pitch shifting in digital audio processing.

3. You never have to leave Reaper to do ANY of this. Thus, the end product will likely sound better.

Some of this might be ‘opinion’ but most of it is FACT.

Call me a Reaper fan boy if you wanna. It works. It’s a frickin’ BARGAIN if there ever was one. :)

UJ