alright,
i am running a few eq’s into a 16 channel board, intro n-track. when i have my drummer sit down and do some tests in the sound room, i am sitting in my control room completely cut off from his sound in the sound room and i am mixing over the truth monitors i have running from my computer to a sherwood amplifier. i am running my main out into the line in via quarter inch (down to 1/8th connection) into the back of my computer.
heres the problem
when i mix over the monitors and get the drums sounding absolutley astounding… and go to record to test out the levels… the drums sound frieken terrible. the bass drum is very flat, the levels are all screwed up and everything. so i read up on monitors and things to see if i was just doing something wrong when it comes to eq’ing. and i read that its good to listen to your favorite bands on the same monitors and position you have your monitors in so you have an “idea” of what your mixes should sound like. that way you know how to make your mixes sound when compared with your amplifier and monitors… so i did that. and got everything sounding great in my mix… and they still sound reallllly flat on the recording.
any suggestions? any settings i need to change? should i try a different line in?
i also had the idea to possibly run eq’s before my board to gain sound, and after my board from my main out into an eq to maybe shape the sound so it wont be so flat in the recording. thanks alot everyone.
-tony
Um, huh? What are you talking about?
Let me see if I follow you…
You have a 2 channel sound card. Because of this, to record drums, you are creating a drum sub mix in an analog mixer and then are sending this drum sub mix into your sound card to record?
Assuming this, your problem can be only one or two things… you are running line level signals into the crappy mic input of a cheap sound card OR you are clipping the input of a line input. If it is the former… stop it and use the line in. If it is the latter, make sure that you are not passing 0db on the input meters of N track. If you pass 0db you are clipping which makes for very nasty distortion and other poo like artifacts. to fix this, simply pull down the master faders on your mixer.
The other thing is… are you running the sub mix in as mono while you mix it as stereo while tracking? In that case, there could be all sorts of phase issues causing the mono signal to sound bad due to poor mic placement etc.
i am running my audio format as mono in. and yes i am running a sub mix into my 2 channel. sorry for all that! lol. and i am only coming out of the right side of my analog mixer into the line in. and i was passing 0db so i turned it down the master level and it brought the levels down and it sounds clean, and not popping or hissing or anything. but it still doesnt sound like it does over my monitors while testing and mixing before recording. so i suppose i can experiment with more mic placement. but should i be mixing in mono or stereo while running in a sub mix from my analog mixer to my line in?
Well, do you want stero or mono drums? if you are recording mono drums, then do your initial sub mix in mono so what you hear is what you get later… that means DON’T TOUCH THE PAN KNOBS. Leave everything dead center.
yeah i would like stereo. so should i set it to stereo, or stereo with two mono tracks?
Stereo or two mono tracks doesn’t matter - it’s still the same info on two tracks - it’s just in one case (stereo) the two tracks are on the same channel strip. If you want, you can always split the stereo to two mono anyway.
so do you think that by recording in stereo it will help my sound? and by recording it in stereo, will i get a more accurate mix over my speakers that would duplicate what would be going down the recording path?
Yes, by all means, record it in stereo, if that is what you are monitoring. Mixing stereo to mono often ends up with signals cancelling because of where mics are placed. This is often really obvious with drums.
Try it and report back what you discover.
Mixing stereo to mono often ends up with signals cancelling because of where mics are placed. This is often really obvious with drums.
Unless you know what you are doing when micing drums....
Lookup Recorderman as a staring point. (Or Glyn Johns) Or look into M/S.
Definitely record the drum submix in stereo.
Make sure you’re using the computer’s line input and not mic input. Built-in line inputs on many computers are decent enough to make decent recordings. Built-in mic inputs aren’t. I’m not a purist or one with lofty expectations (or I wouldn’t endorse built-in line inputs). Those mic inputs are suitable for recording voice notes and stuff like that, not music.
It’s simplest and best to record to a single stereo track; makes things simpler later. But the only difference is that you get one fader to control both sides, and don’t have to pan the two mono tracks apart. You have a little less control, but it’s usually control you don’t need. If later you find you want that control, it’s simple to split a stereo track into two mono tracks.
That said, it is a VERY good idea to FIRST monitor and mix your drum track in mono, before recording. Here’s why.
1) If it sounds great in mono, it will sound better in stereo. The reverse isn’t true, due to what Tom mentions above: phase cancellation.
2) Your mix will be heard in mono! Through doorways, when far from the speakers, or when someone’s stereo is simply set up badly (poor speaker location, for example). More importantly, there are places in any listening room where, if the mix sounds bad in mono, it will sound odd in these locations, for the same reason: phase cancellation.
3) It’s harder to make a good mono mix. You can’t rely on stereo imaging for all your separation. Therefore it forces you to make hard choices about relative volume levels. This makes your mix better. When you add the extra separation of stereo, the good mono mix will come alive and sound fantastic.
These things apply to mixing your tracks for your whole song, as well as your drum submix. I’m not saying do all your mixing in mono, but you should definitely spend a lot of time making the mono mix sound good. Use that mono/stereo button a lot, it’s your friend. A good mix makes Bubba’s job (mastering) a lot easier, and in most cases, a good stereo mix has a good mono mix inside it.
Mixing stereo to mono often ends up with signals cancelling because of where mics are placed.
This is often really obvious with drums.
Unless you know what you are doing when micing drums....
Lookup Recorderman as a staring point. (Or Glyn Johns) Or look into M/S.
Bubba, it's a common misconception that Mid-Side avoids phase cancellation problems.
It doesn't avoid them, it just changes where they show up.
M/S does avoid phase cancellation when mixing to mono.
However, when playing in stereo, you can hear phase cancellation effects whenever you're too close to one speaker or the other.
So, when using M/S tecnhique, it's important to double-check your mix by listening to each side independently.
I may have fueled this misconception myself in posts about M/S years ago, before I discovered this little tidbit.
If your M/S technique is one-point miking -- that is, the capsules of M and S mic are very close together, this tends to avoid phase problems. But this is also true of any one-point stereo miking technique, including "LR".
If you're close miking each instrument, phase problems are minimal. Where you need to watch for them is on the overheads, phase-cancelling each other or one of the close-miked instruments. The cancellation causes a tinny or washed out sound.