I don’t care if women originally did this song, its message has always spoken to me in several ways, and I wanted to do it, so SHOOT ME
Danny Milligan - Grandpa
BANG BANG - you’re dead!!!
Joking.
Nice that, Danny.
Thank you, Tony 
Hi dannyraymilligan:
Thanks for the link…
Those are great sounding guitar tracks…
I’m struggling with hearing the Bass and Kick sync/timing in the file…
I have issues with that kind of stuff that do over here…
It takes lots of editing to tighten them up…
I don’t know if it’s latency and or lag on my part or the computer’s part that causes that…
That’s a great song and you fit it very well…
Re-Do
OR
Edit those bass and kick tracks…
Just-for-me…
Then re-post the Render…
Bill…
Well, the drums are simply a loop, Bill, so not sure what I can do about those, and the bass sounds in sync to me, except possibly for a place or two where I almost went to the wrong note and saved it at the last second, lol. Is it that the bass isn’t following along with the kick, or does it sound out of sync with the whole song, to you? I’m not really a bass player, so what sounds good to me probably makes bass players cringe, lol!
BANG - BANG not joking.
Can you NOT hear where your instruments are wandering all over the beat? TRY A D@#N CLICK TRACK. Holy crap…
UJ
PS At least I didn’t pick on yer caterwaulin’ this time…
Quote: (woxnerw @ Dec. 24 2010, 7:56 AM)
Hi dannyraymilligan:
Thanks for the link..
Those are great sounding guitar tracks..
I'm struggling with hearing the Bass and Kick sync/timing in the file..
I have issues with that kind of stuff that do over here..
It takes lots of editing to tighten them up..
I don't know if it's latency and or lag on my part or the computer's part that causes that..
That's a great song and you fit it very well..
Re-Do
OR
Edit those bass and kick tracks..
Just-for-me..
Then re-post the Render..
Bill..
Actually, I'm with you on that Bill.
The drums and bass don't "lock" together on this.
You've got some nice sounding parts on this - the guitars sound nice, and I think your voice suits what you are trying to do.
But the bass/drums relationship I find distracting.
Ditto the single loop running all the way through.
Here's a suggestion.
Or maybe two......
1.
Drums
Don't use just a simple/single loop for your drums. By all means take the loop and use it as a basis for sketching out the song.
But then it needs more work.
So, next go through and add some crashes at the start of relevant bars
(now there's a whole subject... which bars?).
Maybe on the first bar and then every 4 or 8 bars.
If you can use two crashes (ie different sounds) and mix them around then even better.
Next thing to do is make a variant of your pattern - maybe using a Ride cymbal instead of hi-hat.
Then substitute that in for, maybe, the choruses (leaving the hi-hat version for the verses).
Now your drum track is starting to have some "movement".
Next up, you could start editing in little drums fills at then end of (say) every 4 or 8 bars.
Make a couple or three fills and use them through the song.
Finally, you could then add some little variations into your verse/chorus pattern....
maybe add an open hi-hat hit, or a tiny hi-hat fill, or a snare ghost (light) hit.
If you do any, or all of these your drum track will start to come alive.
2.
Bass and drums.
Solo the drums and bass and listen VERY carefully.
In most simple terms the bass should hits should land on the kick hits.
Especially in this type of song.
In fact if you solo the kick and bass you might not even be able to hear the kick as it will be masked by the bass.
If you can't hear where it's not right, slap the two tracks next to each other and zoom in. Turn on the grid - maybe for 1/4 bar beats. Have a look at where the kick lands.
If you've used midi or programmed drums (rather than a free running drum machine), I bet the kick hits will sit right on the grid.
Now have a look at where the bass lands.
On this song I bet that many of the bass hits will sit behind the grid - ie "late" in timing terms.
Then maybe take 8 or 16 bars and see if you can edit the bass hits to land on the kick hits.... or better still play the part again so that the two land together... or very closely together.
Once the drums and bass are working together you can get away with a a bit of drift on the guitar tracks more easily.
When the drums/bass are working together it inspires confidence in the listener.
Hope this helps
$0.02
Mark
Okay, Here’s how I generally get my drums: when I have an idea for a song, I start out with either the rhythm loops on my guitar pedal (has approximately 30 different sequences) or one of the 99 different drum rhythms on my keyboard. Usually, that’s the very first track I lay down, and then I follow it with everything else. Bass is usually one of the last tracks I lay down, before I do vocals. My bass is also NOT really a bass, it’s my guitar pitched down an octave, with compression and other things done to it to try to make it sound more natural. I recently learned that pitching it down does introduce some latency to the track, which I can usually correct by shifting it slightly to the left in the timeline.
As I noted to Bill earlier, I am not really a bass player. Bass is like playing blues, you have to really have a feel for it. For the longest time, I just stuck to playing simple bass lines for my songs, and then people started kvetching that my bass sounded like a plunking piano or midi, lol! So I tried to introduce some variety, and when you start moving the bass around (especially when there are issues with latency, already) then you start seeing noticeable errors in timings.
Yes, I know I could beat all that by simply buying a bass guitar, but that just isn’t in my budget, right now. Buy a bass, skip eating for a few weeks? I’ll pass, thanks, lol!
As I told Bill, I had planned on going in today, and fixing some of these issues, including the blah drums.
I’m no expert, Danny, but if you want a lift with midi and n-Track drums, gizza shout.
Loads of good, free bass plugs out there, too.
Hi dannyraymilligan:
I only say that because your guitar tracks deserve so much tighter/better Beds… Good bass players and drummers who work well together are tough to separate… Discipline in that style of music is so tough to master… I know that the “Concept” applies to all music… However,
I really envy the people that do that music right from the concept …
The musicians, trackers, mixers, producers, editors and through to the mastering…
No detail is left to the imagination…
As much as I am aware, the people who work in the studio confines in many cases, are not the same musicians who work out on the road…
In other words, working in the Studio as a musician is not the same as working out in a live venue… I believe many of these studio guys are discouraged from working and touring, on the road…
Quote…
Okay, Here’s how I generally get my drums: when I have an idea for a song, I start out with either the rhythm loops on my guitar pedal (has approximately 30 different sequences) or one of the 99 different drum rhythms on my keyboard. Usually, that’s the very first track I lay down, and then I follow it with everything else. Bass is usually one of the last tracks I lay down, before I do vocals. My bass is also NOT really a bass, it’s my guitar pitched down an octave, with compression and other things done to it to try to make it sound more natural. I recently learned that pitching it down does introduce some latency to the track, which I can usually correct by shifting it slightly to the left in the timeline.
Boy…
Are you ever ahead of me…
I am still left in the analogue world (Doing Track-for-Track) when doing tracks…
Personally, I’m so poor at being the Bass Player and Drummer on stuff that I work on, that it “Hurts”…
When I look at the .sng file when I render the Kick and Bass tracks it looks so bad that it makes me want to quit working on the project…
Just by being off by a few samples… the .sng files looks so poor… Before you even suspect you hear it, you can see it…
It places the Kick-and-Bass notes outta phase…
As the frequency goes down the dynamic energy required to reproduce those notes correctly, raises exponentially…
When the Bed Samples are in phase the .sng file images on the timeline are quite noticeable…
Maybe, one day I’ll post some images of a timeline that I have worked on to describe what I’m referring to…
dannyraymilligan…
I only bring this up because I think your guitar tracks deserve so much better/tighter/sync’d Beds…
This is just from my perspective, of what I hear when I listen to your creations…
Don’t stop making those beautiful guitar tracks-and-hooks…
Bill…
Okay, the song has been uploaded with new bass and drum tracks, tell me if it makes any difference (just click the original link)…
Hi dannyraymilligan:
I saw you up here as I posted a response to your topic…
I will have a listen to see your progress on this …
Sorry to raise the concern with your project…
I struggle with this part of projects that I work on…
Do I get better with this…
NO…
BUT…
I’d like to think I do…
Bill…
p.s.
OoHh…
As a reply to MarkA’s reply…
This is purely a technical issue, as opposed to a creative issue in tracking and mixing projects…
AaHh…
That sounds more like you…
I’m listening to it as I reply…
My listening attention is drawn to your lyrics and guitar tracks as opposed to listening to the Beds…
As a Back-Line Bass Player it almost comes down to what you don’t play as-it-were as what you play…
OR…
less-is-more…
There much more “space” in this version, of your Cover…
Great Vocals…
Bill…
Thank you, Bill
I wish I had saved the first version as to A-B the two files…
I’m listening again… Still better than the original one I remember hearing… I’d take/EQ. some lo-mids outta that Stick Snare… BUT… that’s just a Taste Thing… Why am I so picky… 
?
Bill…
I thought the snare was too loud in the mix too, but the only way to bring it down was to go through on the time line and adjust the volume levels for each snare hit… and, sad to say, I’m too lazy, lol! I’ll get around to it, though, I promise