There is debate about whether or not Jesus was apocalyptic, but most of the historical evidence says no, he was not. Then again, many Christians take the NT as gospel. 
(Sorry, had to say that - I meant “literal history”). In any case, there were apocalyptics out there other than Essenes.
The whole PBS special presented the apocalyptic side of Jesus (as I recall).
Hmm. I don’t remember it that way, but I could be wrong. I thought they discussed it as part of the Christ myth. Apocalypticism has roots in Jewish literature some 300 years before Jesus, was very common around his time (lots of apocalyptic things were written, and I mean LOTS), and it is certainly possible that Jesus was apocalyptic. But when you look at what can reliably be attributed to the historical Jesus, it does not look at all apocalyptic. It looks, in fact, rather more like Greek cynic philosophy. Go look at the text of the Q gospel, look at the earliest layer of it (get Burton Mack’s Book on Q), and then look at the Scholar’s edition of the 5 gospels, and read only the red and pink passages. Or if you want to cut to the chase, read Funk’s Gospel According to Jesus. The best historical evidence strongly suggests that Jesus was not apocalyptic. It is very hard to see these texts in an unbiased way - Christians (and others who have been raised with the Christian myths as historical fact) find it almost impossible to shed certain aspects of the myth, and usually don’t realize that they are importing it into their reading. I would suggest that this might be true of you in this case. It was certainly true of me at one point!
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| Jesus and John the Baptist I think can accurately be described as either as eschatological or even apocalyptic prophets. Meaning that they were people who expected an abrupt and decisive change, that you might describe as the manifestation of the kingdom of God. Now you can quarrel as to whether apocalyptic is quite the right word for them, but they at least had that much in common with most apocalyptic literature, that they expected some big overturning… |
Jesus and John the Baptist. This goes into it in much more detail.
Well, Collins is wrong.
Seriously, look at the stuff I mentioned, that is, look at the texts themselves. Collins is looking at the texts with a certain bias, certain theoloigcal assumptions that drive his interpretation, perhaps without his even realizing it. The evidence for an apocalyptic Jesus is just not there, once you subtract the overlays of myth. What is there looks like an unusual re-imagining of the place of the “expendables” in the kingdom of God - or better, God’s imperial rule - but it’s not an apocalyptic vision, not in any reasonable sense of the term. Like I said, it is very, very difficult to learn to read the texts without such background biases affecting the reading.
Collins wasn’t the only one making the claim?
Well, I dunno about the apocalypse, but the five horsemen seem to be riding out (the fifth one, Foreclosure, seems to be especially busy).
But, can’t we have Ragnarok instead, it’s so less Jewish! 
Anyway, I could be quite enthusiastic about riding to Valhalla with my arms clasped around a busty Valkyrie. 
Ali (trying hard to laugh after the shock of today).
After some serious thought I came to the conclusion that The Da Vinci Code is a serious work that needs thorough and thoughtful study. I’m waiting for the movie.
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0382625/
These also hold enough truth and fact that they could be seen as as equally plausible as The Da Vinci Code, though some would have to take place other time periods (future):
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0107290/
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0063442/
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0112715/
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0103874/
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0102926/
Keep smiling Ali…where’s that picture of Nergle the big green guy with horns and beer?
Um, phoo, I don’t mean to be dense, but that was sarcasm, right?
There is a difference between, say, Jurassic Park and DVC - the former rests on plausible science, the idea that we can recover some DNA from fossil sources. Dinosaurs are much too far back to be able to do this in fact, but you perhaps noticed that a project to reconstruct Neanderthal genome is under way now. Likewise Silence of the Lambs involves nothing that is really outrageous, aside from perhaps the stupidity of the jailers. Planet of the Apes? Mostly silly, but a good morality tale. But DVC makes claims about historical documents and evidence that are just false, easily seen as false if anyone would take a look at them, and in any case the truth is much more interesting. DVC deserves study as a sociological phenomenon, it deserves study as literature, but if you want scholarship on early Christianity and the historical Jesus, well, there is so much out there. The book, in that respect, is worthless, of course.
I suspect the movie will be fun to watch, but I lament the fact that so many people are taking a work of fiction, written to make money, as fact. Sort of tells you how poor critical thinking skills really are.
Soul, Collins is by no means alone, the apocalyptic Jesus is sort of assumed as a basic truth rather widely in Christian scholarship. But why do you keep relying on authorities? Go look at the evidence and make up your own mind. It is really rather obvious once you look at it. Don’t believe me, don’t beleive Collins, look at the evidence! When it comes to stuff like this, it is sort of like Americans thinking they know what the Constitution says without ever having read it - they rely on what DeLay or whoever tells them. Good god, it is easy enough to read, likewise it is easy enough to read G Thomas and the Q gospel, etc…
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| Um, phoo, I don’t mean to be dense, but that was sarcasm, right? |
Ummm…yes…a bit too subtle maybe.
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| suspect the movie will be fun to watch, but I lament the fact that so many people are taking a work of fiction, written to make money, as fact. Sort of tells you how poor critical thinking skills really are. |
And that’s exactly what I was getting at.
Anytime phoo uses the word “serious” you know it’s sarcasm 
Man, do I feel stupid.
Well, phoo, I’m laughing rather heartily at myself right now.
Is it alright is I laugh beside you?
Sure, it’s even OK if you laugh at me.
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| There is a difference between, say, Jurassic Park and DVC - the former rests on plausible science, the idea that we can recover some DNA from fossil sources. |
Yup. I thought of starting a business based on that.
Trap a fly that has just visited a “dog egg” of someone’s favourite mutt, pickle that fly in something or another, then sell that pickled fly to the owner. That way, when their dog gets killed by a car, or I blow its head off for crapping on my doorstep again, they can rebuild it Jurassic park style!
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| but you perhaps noticed that a project to reconstruct Neanderthal genome is under way now. |
Ah! So the republicans aren’t planning on Condolessa Rice as the next presidential candidate after all!
(Can’t they save the money and just nominate Arnie Swartzathingy instead? 
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| Planet of the Apes? Mostly silly, but a good morality tale. |
What moral is that Tom? Screw a monkey and they’ll make you head of the NRA?
Anyway, you’re wrong. DVC must be true, otherwise they wouldn’t have printed it would they?
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| Screw a monkey… |
Jeepers you guys make me laugh sometimes.
Ok…Let’s get the facts straight.
He didn’t screw a monkey. It was an ape but the ape had enough morals to say no.
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| He didn’t screw a monkey. It was an ape but the ape had enough morals to say no. |
Yeah, but she still took the money though.
Anyway, in puritanical America, they probably cut the scene where Charlton Heston was in the cage with the bull gorilla.
So Mr NRA was strictly speaking the screwee.
And that also explains, (if you saw the cut version and wondered about it), why Charlton (what a stupid name!) kept on receiving bunches of flowers during the rest of the movie.
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| Trap a fly that has just visited a “dog egg” of someone’s favourite mutt, pickle that fly in something or another, then sell that pickled fly to the owner. That way, when their dog gets killed by a car, or I blow its head off for crapping on my doorstep again, they can rebuild it Jurassic park style! |
Or, you could just get a blood sample from it while it’s crapping on your front step.
Ok, it’s been entertaining to say the least, once again folks…!
But now I think it’s safe to wipe and flush on this one 
I give you all the double jiggle salute!(the toilet handle that is)
keep shinin’
jerm