maybe it’s time to pull toke’s feeding tube - being in the negative state he seems to be perpetually in
since when has this board been anything but an opinion forum? with logic like tokey’s then he must be a lawyer judge or politician.
that’s a couple of opinion I think my idoit clone brother and many will agree with
yank yank yank that tube…err…chain
Oh well, they pulled the plug 1:45 am according to the news over here…
You see - this is a very thorny issue for those of the Republican bent. Because it demonstrates their basic hypocrisy.
It is the same for the Conservatives in my country.
“They” want to come across as protecting the old values. But this issue pits ‘Marriage’ against ‘Right to Life’ and reveals that what “they” truly want is to control others. And the devil take the hind part.
Exactly the type of people who would watch the skies for signs of the Messiah - but keep the nails handy, just in case.
Tom Delay et al. are moving in & trying to put this into the Federal courts. What hypocrits these guys are. They hate the Federal government & system but yet they’ll use it whenever it suites their political gains.
Mr Idiot - I’m a very happy guy but if I ever end up like Terri, please pull my plug.
In reality, this stuff happens all the time, i.e., where people are allowed to die, but in this case, the family doesn’t agree, so it’s fought in courts for 5 years. And now the US Congress gets involved in something they have no business being involved in.
The real medical ethical issue in Terri’s case and in any medical case where there is poor quality of life and dismal prognosis is to determine what she would want for herself if she could express an opinion. I have delt with this in my line of work many times. Families are often confused and think we are asking what they want for the patient. This is not the the case. Too often there is disagreement among family members. The courts in Florida sided with her husband because he provided testimony and witnesses that Terri had previously expressed that she would not want to be kept alive by artificial means. They are trying to act on that earlier opinion that Terri expressed. It is heartbreaking though to see the family dragged through this political grandstanding.
If congress passes a law like they are proposing then you and I may loose the opportunity to have our wishes followed for our own medical care.
I can’t believe this has become a political issue.
You’ve got it true north.
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| I can’t believe this has become a political issue. |
I can’t believe that you believe this has become a political issue.
Politicians will do anything, particularly ones on a crusade.
| Quote (Former Member Gone @ Mar. 20 2005,00:07) |
| I can't believe this has become a political issue. |
You said it. Don't we have another 3 years or so before digging up wedge issues? Steroids in baseball is another one. Sheesh.... But our politicans DO understand propaganda very well it seems.
Yep, political, so obviously so. This morning Sister Prejean was on CNN, pointing out the hypocrisy Bill Clark points out - conservatives claim to be worried about life, but not only don’t help (for just one example) kids at risk in towns like mine, but do everything they can to remove social services for them. Repubs support the death penalty, which even if you don’t think it intrinsically wrong, has resulted in so many innocent deaths that it is ridiculous - and reps favor executing children too. These people don’t care a whit for life. Conservatives want to force their twisted world view on the rest of us, partly to serve their greed, partly to serve wacko, untenable interpretations of what they call “Christianity.” These are not Christians. Jesus would have been appalled.
These people are dangerous, and we gave them the white house and both houses of congress.
On behalf of those in the US who care, I appologize to the rest of you in other parts of the world for the harm we are doing.
Wow. This thread has degenerated from a discussion about the viability of a woman’s life to people throwing mud at Christians and Republicans. TomS has even stepped up to the plate and apologized to the rest of the world for what he perceives to be the evils of conservatism. (golf clap) Nice work. Why is this stuff even an issue? Have ya’ll run out of truly relevant points to contribute to this debate?
Sheesh.
And… No one addressed my question: What do you consider to be the baseline motor functions that a body must possess in order to not be starved to death?
And Mike, I don’t care what the doctors say. In order for Terri to die, she has to be killed by starving her to death. That is quite different from someone being kept alive by a respirator.
OK - I apologize for the Ad Hominem attacks.
Okey Dokey...
You sound like an expert John - are you a doctor? You can choose to deny the facts in this case, and base your opinions on emotions - that's your right, but 12 doctors disagree with you. And the courts disagree with you.
Ooppps! Another ad hominem in the very next paragraph. That didn't last long.
-10 points for you for attacking your perception of your opponent's creibility instead of staying on track with the debate.
ad hom·i·nem( P ) Pronunciation Key (hm-nm, -nm)adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives.
Okey Dokey...
You sound like an expert John - are you a doctor? You can choose to deny the facts in this case, and base your opinions on emotions - that's your right, but 12 doctors disagree with you. And the courts disagree with you.
Ooppps! Another ad hominem in the very next paragraph. That didn't last long.
-10 points for you for attacking your perception of your opponent's creibility instead of staying on track with the debate.
ad hom·i·nem( P ) Pronunciation Key (hm-nm, -nm)adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives.
Thanks for deepening my understanding of the word ad hominem.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned yet that the Republicans, who have traditionally been in favor of states’ rights, are trying to overturn a decision by Florida state courts. Ha, let’s see if Florida ever fixes another presidential election for them!
*** I’m pulling the plug on this part of the discussion ***
With all respect John, you are a revisionist.
The thread started with Mike posting an article that drew attention to the aspect of this case that underscores a basic hypocrisy in asserting a traditional definition of marriage while ignoring the rights of the woman’s husband in making this decision.
You then tried to pull the discussion off topic by making an unsupported (and apparently unsupportable) statement that "…She is far from the vegetative state that everyone seems to think she is in."
And now you complain that the topic continues to deal with the issues that Mike started it with, rather than the issue that you are more comfortable arguing.
…
nergle,
I’m having a little trouble following your post. Where, in this thread, did Mike insinuate that disagreement with him equalled arseholery?
He posted a link to an article that raised (in my opinion) some very valid issues that arise out of this controversy. Others then tried to make it about ‘quality of life’ issues - which clearly was not the point of the article nor the substance of Mike’s comments.
John then lamented the thread gowing off-topic by not focusing on the ‘quality of life’ issue even though that was clearly not what it was about in the first place.
I’m not trying to be an apologist for Mike (he doesn’t need me to be, in any event) but fair is fair.
…
Bill - you have a way of seeing through the murkiness. Yes this thread is full of revisionism which is why I get pissed off even trying to have a discussion here sometimes.
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| There have been other equally qualified medical practitioners making differing diagnoses, but Toke ignores them. |
Please show me these other diagnoses. I’m not aware of any other that weren’t presented in court?
Ali - I really am having a hard time following your posts also. People disagree with my opinions all the time & they are not wrong. Surely you can see that this thread is not about that.
My thinking is very independent but I do take positions on things. This is alot of lying/smear going in this country, as in this case with the smear that gone against Terri’s husband, and I for one am sick & tired of it.
For sure there are ethical issues with letting some in a PVS die. The article I originally posted talked about them, but came to the conclusion which I think is the correct one.
Now look at what is going on today. The US Congress is trying to pass a bill to specifically put the Terri S case in federal courts. Talk about an abuse of power in the Legislative Branch.
…
All I can see is that you’ve taken this thread way off topic 
Please show me the diagnosis that I missed. Was this diagnosis presented in court?
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| He posted a link to an article that raised (in my opinion) some very valid issues that arise out of this controversy. Others then tried to make it about ‘quality of life’ issues - which clearly was not the point of the article nor the substance of Mike’s comments. |
Thanks Bill. You’ve managed to separate the wheat from the chaff once again. I wish others here could do that & maybe we would have a decent discussion.