The Unconscionable Claims of Michael J. Fox

Quote (KingFish @ Oct. 26 2006,17:21)
Quote (clark_griswold @ Oct. 26 2006,04:14)
oh yes, you are the "open minded" people. right.

Not anymore.

Why should I give quarter to republican ideas when they've failed at virtually everything in the last 6 years.

I had an open mind when GW was elected. I didn't vote for him but I never believed he or any leader would voluntarily take his country down the toilet, nor did I believe that his party would ever let him. I was wrong.

KF

I'm with you KF. The economy is in the tank, stock market is crashing, the jobless rate is at a record high. Not to mention all the terrorist attacks since 911.

Workers of the world unite!!!

Midget Minded

Quote (KingFish @ Oct. 26 2006,00:33)
What’s reprehensible is Republican Congressmen pedophiles and their supporters.

KF


BTW…Foley is an Ex-Congressman

Webb vs. Allen




The press release, as provided by the Allen Campaign:

WEBB’S WEIRD WORLD

The Author’s Disturbing Writings Show a Continued Pattern of Demeaning Women

· Some of Webb’s writings are very disturbing for a candidate hoping to represent the families of Virginians in the U.S. Senate.

· Many excellent books about the United States military and wartime service accomplish their purposes, and even win awards, without systematically demeaning women, and without dehumanizing women, men and even children.

· Webb’s novels disturbingly and consistently – indeed, almost uniformly – portray women as servile, subordinate, inept, incompetent, promiscuous, perverted, or some combination of these. In novel after novel, Webb assigns his female characters base, negative characteristics. In thousands of pages of fiction penned by Webb, there are few if any strong, admirable women or positive female role models.

Why does Jim Webb refuse to portray women in a respectful, positive light, whether in his non-fiction concerning their role in the military, or in his provocative novels? How can women trust him to represent their views in the Senate when chauvinistic attitudes and sexually exploitive references run throughout his fiction and non-fiction writings?

· Most Virginians and Americans would find passages such as those below shocking, especially coming from the pen of someone who seeks the privilege of serving in the United States Senate, one of the highest offices in the land:



– Lost Soldiers: “A shirtless man walked toward them along a mud pathway. His muscles were young and hard, but his face was devastated with wrinkles. His eyes were so red that they appeared to be burned by fire. A naked boy ran happily toward him from a little plot of dirt. The man grabbed his young son in his arms, turned him upside down, and put the boy’s penis in his mouth.”

Bantam Books, NY, 1st Edition, 2001, (hard cover), page 333.
Quote is from para. 10,.Chap. 34.

– Something to Die For: "Fogarty . . . watch[ed] a naked young stripper do the splits over a banana. She stood back up, her face smiling proudly and her round breasts glistening from a spotlight in the dim bar, and left the banana on the bar, cut in four equal sections by the muscles of her vagina."

William Morrow and Company, Inc., NY 1991, 1st Ed. (hardcover), p. 36.
Avon Books, New York, 1992 (Mass-Market paperback edition), p. 35
Quote is from para. 29, Chap. 2 “The South China Sea,”, Section 2

– A Country Such as This: "[He] could see Jawbone and Ashley Asthmatic [two guards at a Vietnamese prison camp] napping together in the grass. They faced inward, their arms entwined. It looked like they were masturbating each other. It didn’t surprise him. … It was common to see men holding hands, embracing, playing with each other. Some of them [the guards] had wanted him. He could tell in those evanescent moments between his bao cao bow, the obligatory deference when a guard entered his cell, and the first word or blow that followed it… Quick, grinding voices, turgid with repressed passion. An exploratory reaching of the hand near his groin…”

Doubleday & Co., Garden City, NY, 1983 (hardcover); page 396.
Bluejacket Books, 2001 (Trade paperback edition), page 396
Page numbers are the same in the Naval Institute Press (paperback) edition, 1983.
Quote is from fifth para, Part 5 “A Country Such As This,” Chap. 24, Section 1

– A Sense of Honor: “Nurse Goodbody, dark and voluptuous (Lenahan had forgotten her actual name, it was something long and Italian), was a bedtime friend to many of the doctors in Bethesda. She had hinted to Lenahan that she simply could not contain herself. Doctors tending to patients, she explained, aroused her. Morphine Mary (again Lenahan could not remember her exact name) was a thin, nervous drill sergeant type, a disciplinarian who did not allow her patients even to complain. Lenahan was convinced that Morphine Mary did not even sleep with her husband. She wasn’t bad looking, he mused again, staring at her thin frame. If she’d just get laid every now and then she’d mellow out and stop being such a #### witch.” (p. 164) (Lenahan brings Goodbody home with him and has sex, pp. 188-190)

Prentice-Hall, New York, 1981 (hardcover)
Bantam, New York, 1982 (Mass-Market paperback edition), p. 164
Trade paperback edition, Bluejacket Books, 1995, p. 164
Quote is from fourth para in Part 3, “Chapter 4:1600”

– Something to Die For: "[Fogarty] has been thinking of the firm, springy skin and the sweet smells of a young Filipina woman named Maria in whose bed he had spent three nights almost twenty years ago. . . . She was a deliciously bad young woman. . . . On the second night, he had brought her a box of Godiva chocolates . . . . he had awakened to find her in the bathroom, sitting on the toilet with her knees underneath her chin, eating chocolates and counting her rosary beads as she prayed."

William Morrow and Company, Inc., NY 1991, 1st Ed. (hardcover), p. 32.
Avon Books New York, 1992 (Mass-Market paperback edition), p. 30
Quote is from third para in Chapter 2 “South China Sea,”, Part 2

– Something to Die For: "We’re on our way to becoming the world’s recreational center, a nation [USA] not to be taken seriously. Where are we still the undisputed leader? Music. Movies. Fast food. Drugs. . . . the billboards fifty years from now as you come over the bridge and stop at the tollbooths outside Manhattan: A smiling beautiful naked woman, and the sign saying AMERICAN ASS IS OUR MOST IMPORTANT PRODUCT."

William Morrow and Company, Inc., NY 1991, 1st Ed. (hardcover), p. 199.
Avon Books New York, 1992 (Mass-Market paperback edition), p. 237
Quote is from para. 38, Chap. 13, Part 1, (five paras before Part 2).

– Fields of Fire: Snake (the protagonist) sees his mother on the bed: "She looked as if she were carefully attempting to re-create a picture from some long-forgotten men’s magazine . . . . She was naked underneath the robe . . . . and the robe fell loosely away, revealing her. Snake shrugged resignedly."

Prentice-Hall, New York, 1978 (Hardcover, 1st edition), p. 8
Bantam Books “mass market [paperback] edition” published in Sept. 2001. p. 9.
Quote is from paragraphs 18-23, Part 1 “The Best We Have”, Section 1
(NOTE: Part 1 is after the Prologue)

– Fields of Fire: "He saw the invitation with every bouncing breast and curved hip. . . . He was thirteen. . . . She was fifteen . . . . In a few moments she drew him to her and he murmured in his quiet voice, ‘I am still small.’ ‘You are large enough,’ she answered. And he found he was."

Prentice-Hall, New York, 1978 (Hardcover, 1st edition), pp. 211-212
Bantam Books “mass market [paperback] ed.” published in Sept. 2001, pp. 280-81.
Quote is from paragraphs 8-20, Part 2 “The End of the Pipeline,” Chapter 24

– A Sense of Honor: “… that is, if you knew who your sister was, Brustein, and if she’d been born with anything between her legs except an #######, I’d be happy to bring some class to your low-rent name by knocking the bitch up.” (p. 223)

Prentice-Hall, New York, 1981 (hardcover)
Bantam, New York, 1982 (Mass-Market paperback edition), p. 223
Trade paperback edition, Bluejacket Books, 1995, p. 223
Quote is from 17th para in Part 4, “Chapter 7:1930”

– A Sense of Honor: “You wouldn’t have believed it, Swede. She just dropped her britches and lifted up her skirt and pissed like a man. Didn’t lose a drop, either. Not a drop.” (p. 183)

Prentice-Hall, New York, 1981 (hardcover)
Bantam, New York, 1982 (Mass-Market paperback edition), p. 183
Trade paperback edition, Bluejacket Books, 1995, p. 183
Quote is from 23rd para in Part 3, “Chapter 8: 2300”

END

Please explain to us why George Allen called one of Webb’s campaign workers a “macaca”?

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This fellow here, over here with the yellow shirt, macaca, or whatever his name is. He’s with my opponent. He’s following us around everywhere. And it’s just great,


Now when they asked Allen what macaca means, Allen said:

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I don’t know what it means.


Well if he didn’t know what it meant, then why did he use the word? Do you use words that you don’t know the meaning of?

No - I think Allen knew what the word meant & he knew it was a derogatory term or slur, which is why called he his opponent’s worker that.

Headline of the day

WOLF BLITZER CONFRONTS LYNNE CHENEY ABOUT LESBIAN AFFAIRS, BROTHELS, ATTEMPTED RAPES IN HER NOVEL…

Weather after the break…

KF

More headlines…

Economic Growth Slows To The Weakest Pace In More Than Three Years…

Taylor Marsh: John McCain Thought Jim Webb’s Books Were Great…Read Blurb Here…

US Death Toll In Iraq Highest In A Year…

GOP’S MIKE DEWINE VOTED TO SUPPORT HATEFUL APARTHEID REGIME…

Army Blocking Soldiers In Iraq From Reading “Left Leaning” Websites, Conservative Websites Allowed…

Woman Repeats That GOP Candidate Forced Her Up Against Wall After Making Unwanted Advances…

Report: Halliburton Firm In Iraq Abused Rules To Prevent Competition…

Wake up

KF

In case you’re wondering…

Those &numbers are just punctuation that doesn’t come through by cut and pasting.

KF

Quote (Mr Soul @ Oct. 27 2006,13:58)
Please explain to us why George Allen called one of Webb's campaign workers a "macaca"?

This fellow here, over here with the yellow shirt, macaca, or whatever his name is. He's with my opponent. He's following us around everywhere. And it's just great,


Now when they asked Allen what means, Allen said:

I don't know what it means.

Well if he didn't know what it meant, then why did he use the word? Do you use words that you don't know the meaning of?

No - I think Allen knew what the word meant & he knew it was a derogatory term or slur, which is why called he his opponent's worker that.
Fair enough Toker, if explainations are needed,

Let Webb explain writing this, – Lost Soldiers: “A shirtless man walked toward them along a mud pathway. His muscles were young and hard, but his face was devastated with wrinkles. His eyes were so red that they appeared to be burned by fire. A naked boy ran happily toward him from a little plot of dirt. The man grabbed his young son in his arms, turned him upside down, and put the boy’s penis in his mouth.”

Makes "macaca " seem relativly tame, don't you think?

Midget Mind

Midget, please explain to me what Webb has to do with Michael J Fox and his beliefs in promoting stem cell research. I realize that your original post is so weak that you now need to throw up smoke screens to cover your inane argument, but this current line of thought is so skewed that it smacks of a ksdb thought process.

This is what it sounds like to me. You hate apples, so you hate apple trees, and an apple tree is a tree so you hate all trees, and trees are grown from the earth so you hate the earth and people live on the earth so you hate people, and your neighbor is one of those people so you hate your neighbor, and your neighbor likes oranges so you hate oranges.

You started talking apples, and now you are talking oranges. You seem to think they are related and in your mind they are. The key is that they are related by your hate.

something you might want to think about…

Mike

I’m a little late coming to this discussion, but have a couple of points about the original article.

The article is disingenuous and far more misleading than it purports Michael J. Fox’s ads to be. Key things to keep in mind:

- Adult stem cells are multipotent (restricted to specific subpopulations of cell types)
- Embryonic stem cells may be pluripotent (able to give rise to cells found in all tissues of the embryo)
- Researchers began using adult stem cells from bone marrow in 1960; scientists have only been able to do experiments with human embryonic stem cells since 1998.

Embryonic stem cell research has enormous potential. It is only ‘potential’ at this point because, obviously, further research needs to be done. Adult stem cell research has a four decade head start. To dismiss that potential based on the experience with adult stem cells is tantamount to dismissing space exploration on the basis of our experience with terrestrial flight: “We’ve been flying since 1903, why do we need to develop rockets?”

Quote (Midget Hot Rink @ Oct. 28 2006,03:15)
…Let Webb explain writing this, – Lost Soldiers: “A shirtless man walked toward them along a mud pathway. His muscles were young and hard, but his face was devastated with wrinkles. His eyes were so red that they appeared to be burned by fire. A naked boy ran happily toward him from a little plot of dirt. The man grabbed his young son in his arms, turned him upside down, and put the boy’s penis in his mouth.”

I can explain it.

It’s a novel. A novel is a work of fiction. This particular novel (which is highly praised, by the way, particularly by veterans of the Viet Nam War) uses graphic imagery and actual events witnessed by the author to convey truth about the aftermath of the war on Vietnamese society. The novel succeeds very well. But the important point is: it’s a novel; a work of fiction.

You remind me of all those Evangelical Christians who got so upset over Dan Brown’s novel (or, more accurately, the movie based on Dan Brown’s novel) The DaVinci Code. But in that case it was somewhat understandable; Evangelical Christians have a traditional difficulty differentiating fiction from fact.

Quote (DrGuitar @ Oct. 28 2006,11:17)
Midget, please explain to me what Webb has to do with Michael J Fox and his beliefs in promoting stem cell research. I realize that your original post is so weak that you now need to throw up smoke screens to cover your inane argument, but this current line of thought is so skewed that it smacks of a ksdb thought process.

This is what it sounds like to me. You hate apples, so you hate apple trees, and an apple tree is a tree so you hate all trees, and trees are grown from the earth so you hate the earth and people live on the earth so you hate people, and your neighbor is one of those people so you hate your neighbor, and your neighbor likes oranges so you hate oranges.

You started talking apples, and now you are talking oranges. You seem to think they are related and in your mind they are. The key is that they are related by your hate.

something you might want to think about…

Mike

Exactly what in my original post is " weak "? Refute it with facts!! As for Webb, look at this reply!!

"What’s reprehensible is Republican Congressmen pedophiles and their supporters.

KF"


You said:
"You hate apples, so you hate apple trees, and an apple tree is a tree so you hate all trees, and trees are grown from the earth so you hate the earth and people live on the earth so you hate people, and your neighbor is one of those people so you hate your neighbor, and your neighbor likes oranges so you hate oranges. "

?????You got me there, I don’t have a clue,

Midget Mind(ed)

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"What’s reprehensible is Republican Congressmen pedophiles and their supporters.

KF"


I learned that from Rove’s book “The Rovian Art of Misdirection”.

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??You got me there, I don’t have a clue,

Midget Mind(ed)


Now you’re gettin’ it.

KF

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Makes "macaca " seem relativly tame, don’t you think?

Nice try but why did Allen use the word “macaca” to reference an opponent’s volunteer worker? Racial slurs are just as bad or worst than pornography in my book.

I think this paragraph from Webb’s book was taken out of context & therefore I am not going to comment on it.
Quote (KingFish @ Oct. 28 2006,23:19)
"What's reprehensible is Republican Congressmen pedophiles and their supporters.

KF"


I learned that from Rove's book "The Rovian Art of Misdirection".

??You got me there, I don't have a clue,

Midget Mind(ed)

Now you're gettin' it.

KF
No, It was a knee-jerk emotional reaction to a post that upset you.

And yes, I do get it.

Midget Mind(ed)
Quote (Mr Soul @ Oct. 28 2006,23:19)
Makes "macaca " seem relativly tame, don't you think?

Nice try but why did Allen use the word "macaca" to reference an opponent's volunteer worker? Racial slurs are just as bad or worst than pornography in my book.

I think this paragraph from Webb's book was taken out of context & therefore I am not going to comment on it.
I guess we will just have to let the voters decide :D :D :D

Midget Mind(ed)

What’s the matter - are you afraid to answer my question? Others have come forward indicating that Allen has used racial slurs. If you vote for Allen, you vote for a bigot.

On the other hand, Webb is an American hero.

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After high school, Webb spent a year in nrotc at the University of Southern California before transferring to the Naval Academy. Graduating in 1968, he took a commission with the Marines and soon thereafter headed for Vietnam. In his 1995 book, The Nightingale’s Song, Robert Timberg notes that, during one two-month period in 1969, 56 men in Webb’s platoon were killed or wounded, including some of his closest friends. Nor did Webb himself escape unscathed. One day in July 1969, Webb was out clearing spider holes with comrade Mac McDowell when a Viet Cong sprang up and lobbed a grenade at the pair. Webb shot the enemy soldier, shoved McDowell to the ground, and threw himself between his friend and the grenade. Thirty-seven years later, Webb still carries pieces of the shrapnel in a kidney and at the base of his skull. The incident earned him a Navy Cross, the Armed Forces’ second-highest combat medal.

It also ended his military career. Anxious to return to the field, Webb cut short treatment on a knee wound and tried to ignore the subsequent infection. (Recounts Timberg, “One morning he squatted down to make coffee and the wound burst open. A clot of pus and dead skin the size of a tennis ball blew out of his knee. He had the battalion surgeon clean it up and give him a shot of penicillin, then returned to his platoon.”) The infection spread, eventually wreaking so much damage that, despite two years of grueling rehabilitation, Webb was ruled incapable of ever again leading troops. Faced with the prospect of life behind a desk, he resigned in 1972 and decided to try his hand at law.


Tell about about Allen’s military career.

It’s a shame to see the Republican smear machine try to bring a good man down. I hope the voters in VA are smart enough to see through the smear.
Quote (Mr Soul @ Oct. 28 2006,23:33)
On the other hand, Webb is an American hero.

Anyone you DON'T agree with that is an American hero?

Fox admits not reading amendment.

"Stephanopoulos: In the ad now running in Missouri, Jim Caviezel speaks in Aramaic. It means, “You betray me with a kiss.” And his position, his point, is that actually even though down in Missouri they say the initiative is against cloning, it’s actually going to allow human cloning.

Fox: Well, I don’t think that’s true. You know, I campaigned for Claire McCaskill. And so I have to qualify it by saying I’m not qualified to speak on the page-to-page content of the initiative. Although, I am quite sure that I’ll agree with it in spirit, I don’t know, I— On full disclosure, I haven’t read it, and that’s why I didn’t put myself up for it distinctly. "

Quote (Mr Soul @ Oct. 28 2006,23:33)
What's the matter - are you afraid to answer my question? Others have come forward indicating that Allen has used racial slurs. If you vote for Allen, you vote for a bigot.

On the other hand, Webb is an American hero.

After high school, Webb spent a year in nrotc at the University of Southern California before transferring to the Naval Academy. Graduating in 1968, he took a commission with the Marines and soon thereafter headed for Vietnam. In his 1995 book, The Nightingale's Song, Robert Timberg notes that, during one two-month period in 1969, 56 men in Webb's platoon were killed or wounded, including some of his closest friends. Nor did Webb himself escape unscathed. One day in July 1969, Webb was out clearing spider holes with comrade Mac McDowell when a Viet Cong sprang up and lobbed a grenade at the pair. Webb shot the enemy soldier, shoved McDowell to the ground, and threw himself between his friend and the grenade. Thirty-seven years later, Webb still carries pieces of the shrapnel in a kidney and at the base of his skull. The incident earned him a Navy Cross, the Armed Forces' second-highest combat medal.

It also ended his military career. Anxious to return to the field, Webb cut short treatment on a knee wound and tried to ignore the subsequent infection. (Recounts Timberg, "One morning he squatted down to make coffee and the wound burst open. A clot of pus and dead skin the size of a tennis ball blew out of his knee. He had the battalion surgeon clean it up and give him a shot of penicillin, then returned to his platoon.") The infection spread, eventually wreaking so much damage that, despite two years of grueling rehabilitation, Webb was ruled incapable of ever again leading troops. Faced with the prospect of life behind a desk, he resigned in 1972 and decided to try his hand at law.


Tell about about Allen's military career.

It's a shame to see the Republican smear machine try to bring a good man down. I hope the voters in VA are smart enough to see through the smear.
What exactly was your question? Perhaps I'm a bit dense. I presume it will not too much trouble to ask it again. I will be more than happy to answer!! :D :D

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What exactly was your question? Perhaps I’m a bit dense. I presume it will not too much trouble to ask it again. I will be more than happy to answer!!

Actually, this is the question:
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Nice try but why did Allen use the word “macaca” to reference an opponent’s volunteer worker?

The this was your answer:
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I guess we will just have to let the voters decide

In Southern states it’s well known what it means in the context as used by Allen. To imply otherwise is to be disingenuous, or just plain ignorant. Is Allen is THAT ignorant? I don’t think so. I think he was showing his true colors and talking in a way that his supporters would understand as well as he did. Allen has a history of making racial remarks. He toned it down when he got into public service.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaca_%28slur%29

Here’s a few links of interest:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/09/24/allen_football/
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/26/politics/main2039589.shtml
http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet…0590317