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I beg to differ.
Do we really have to beg to differ?
Depends on who's running the show.
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I beg to differ.
Do we really have to beg to differ?
Depends on who's running the show.
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So what's a brother to do? Both sides are flawed, but I think one side is much less flawed than the other in my ever so humble opinion as a history nerd.
I don't hide my inclination to vote republican, but either side is capable of leading us off a cliff. My greatest concern with a President Obama is the democrats pushing him more and more to the left. To get elected, he's had to portray himself as somewhat of a centrist. (Or at least downplay his more leftward tendencies.) I'd feel better about it if he had to deal with a humble republican-led congress.
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Well somebody told us Wall Street fell
But we were so poor that we couldn't tell
Song of The South
Quote: (kevinmyers @ Oct. 09 2008, 11:15 AM)
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So what's a brother to do? Both sides are flawed, but I think one side is much less flawed than the other in my ever so humble opinion as a history nerd.
I don't hide my inclination to vote republican, but either side is capable of leading us off a cliff. My greatest concern with a President Obama is the democrats pushing him more and more to the left. To get elected, he's had to portray himself as somewhat of a centrist. (Or at least downplay his more leftward tendencies.) I'd feel better about it if he had to deal with a humble republican-led congress.
I think it is interesting that we (as Americans) have learn to speak in spin tongue just like the TV pundits.
In addition, I can hear TV pundit talk coming from folks who are clueless to the actual facts.
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I don't hide my inclination to vote republican, but either side is capable of leading us off a cliff.
Yep, this is true.
Problem is that the sentence sells fear to confuse the issue that 8 years ago we were lowering the national debt and had a federal surplus 3 years in a row.
Now we have nearly doubled the national debt and are adding to the national debt at a rate of nearly 700 billion dollars a year.
As an independent, I think I trust the party of "elite thinkers" rather than the party of "complete deregulation".
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My greatest concern with a President Obama is the democrats pushing him more and more to the left.
And you fear this because of what facts?
What legislation by Barack has you believing Obama is a far left politician?
I have heard pundits spout such drivel, but have yet to see any extreme leftist policies.
Honestly, I do not think you could go much further left (in a bad way) than Bush just did by buying out nearly a trillion dollars in bad debt from the banks and insurance industry. How does this sound; the First United States Bank, or United States Insurance...
socialism anyone?
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I'd feel better about it if he had to deal with a humble republican-led congress.
Yep, Clinton had to deal with a Republican congress and they impeached him for getting a header.
Have you heard the phrase,"When Clinton lied, no one died!".
How is that war against the terrorists... I mean against the people of Iraq going?
How is Bin Laden doing anyway?
Why did we go into Iraq?
Oh yeah, we were told that it was central in the war on terrorism and Saddam had ties with Bin Laden.
They were all lies; it has been proved that they(the Bush administration) knew it at the time and worked to cover up the facts.
But the Bush administration wasn't happy just invading Iraq, they needed to kill tens of thousands of innocent folks just so they could make Iraq a breeding ground for more terrorists.
Nice going George!
By the way, it was that republican led congress that voted us into this economic downward spiral from banking deregulation.
So is there a positive side to keeping a republican led congress?
You might want to turn down the volume of Fox news in your house and consider that it is now time to spread the wealth of this country to the middle and lower classes (those who actually do most of the work).
Stepping off my soapbox...
Mike
PS. I'm sorry folks, I broke my own rules. I mentioned in the topic that I was not interested in political comments or who you are voting for. I probably stipulated that more for my own sake since I am so sickened by the current administrations efforts in the past 8 years. I supported Bush in the beginning and I am embarrassed.
Hey Mike, it never occurred to me that my little statement would get such a strong and lengthy response. We obviously don’t understand each other very well, and it may well be that we never will. Gonna try to respond anyway.
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I think I trust the party of “elite thinkers” rather than the party of “complete deregulation”.
I’m not in favor of complete deregulation, or being lorded over by elite thinkers. There is a need for laws, but there will always be those searching and finding ways around the law. I certainly don’t understand this economic mess enough that I can offer any solutions, and I don’t sit around wondering which political party to blame it on. I really don’t believe all the good guys are in one party and all the bad guys are in the other.
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What legislation by Barack has you believing Obama is a far left politician?
I’m not sure I said anything to indicate I believe he is “a far left politician”. But he is a politician. My point was more about some of his fellow democrats. Listening to his acceptance speech, the thought crossed my mind that some of what he said might not be so easily adopted by a democrat-dominated congress. I find it hard to believe there aren’t those who will see it as an opportunity to REALLY change the country. I don’t want to see radical change in either direction.
As far as how and why we ended up in Iraq, I don’t really care to discuss it. Pointless to try. My niece’s husband will be heading to Iraq in November, and my prayers go with him.
Fox News? It’s probably in third place as far as how much time I watch it compared to other sources. I end up watching CNN and C-Span more. (I’ve just about sworn off MSNBC, and I actually used to like Chris Matthews.)
Again, Mike, our views are in conflict, but I certainly hope we are not. All I know to do is vote, pray, and see what happens.
Well what is it going to matter with all of the voter registration fraud?
Deceased people with 20 or more registrations.
Washington + Wall street = Main Street get the vasoline out!
Quote: (kevinmyers @ Oct. 11 2008, 12:50 AM)
]I'm not in favor of complete deregulation, or being lorded over by elite thinkers.
I have a news flash for ya, you are being lorded over by the political elite.
It doesn't matter if the President is a buffoon or a thinker; I just prefer the thinking type.
Quote: (kevinmyers @ Oct. 11 2008, 12:50 AM)
]
I'm not sure I said anything to indicate I believe he is "a far left politician".....I find it hard to believe there aren't those who will see it as an opportunity to REALLY change the country. I don't want to see radical change in either direction.
Actually you did mention that you felt Obama was "downplaying his more leftward tendencies".
My question was, what specific legislation that you know of has you believing Obama is not a centrist; that he is in fact leftward leaning democrat?
Do you know this for a fact or are you just repeating spin you have heard?
As far as not wanting to see radical change, these last 8 years must have been torture for you.
Quote: (kevinmyers @ Oct. 11 2008, 12:50 AM)
]As far as how and why we ended up in Iraq, I don't really care to discuss it. Pointless to try. My niece's husband will be heading to Iraq in November, and my prayers go with him.
The point about Iraq is important when judging the character of a man (especially when that man is the leader of his party and the free world).
I understand your reluctance to discuss it since it is an 800 pound gorilla in politics.
McCain has backed the Iraq invasion/occupation and continues to believe this obvious mistake needs to be won.
To me, this is a little like saying the local bully is a killer (when he is not, you just want his house) and then saying you need to kill him to protect the neighborhood.
So now you take out a gun and start shooting; killing neighbors and friends in the process.
Real killers outside the neighborhood hear the noise and come to join in so that they can take over when the smoke clears.
Now you have killed the bully and have to continue killing other people (innocent and guilty) because of an initial lie.
Your concept now is to keep killing till everyone who shoots back in the neighborhood is dead.
Local neighborhoods are angry at you and have joined in.
You bring in more friends so that you can hold your place.
I understand you not wanting to bring it up; it doesn't make your candidate look so good.
Quote: (kevinmyers @ Oct. 11 2008, 12:50 AM)
]Fox News? It's probably in third place as far as how much time I watch it compared to other sources.
It is good to hear the Fox News is third on your list of "reliable sources".
Personally, I find Fox news too insulting to humanity to watch.
Finally, I have nothing against Republicans.
I would welcome a traditional Republican in office; one who believes in fiscal responsibility, small government, government that does not invade a persons privacy, government who allows people to live and let live (rather than tell them who to love or what to do with their bodies...etc.).
I am certainly much closer to a Republican than the current President or the current Republican presidential candidate.
I think Obama is even closer to a real Republican than either of these men (although he is more centrist than myself).
It is a shame; the republican party could have put a true republican up as a candidate.
The John McCain from 8 years ago was much closer to a true republican.
The McCain of today has been co opted by the neo-cons.
Sad really.
I would have voted for the McCain of 8 years ago.
Mike
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My question was, what specific legislation that you know of has you believing Obama is not a centrist
No legislation - that's one problem.
However, his proposals dealing with health care, taxes, gun control,
supreme court nominees, etc. are all socialist. Also, his ally's,
both politcal (in Illinois) and personal are socialists.
Am I wrong?
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Actually you did mention that you felt Obama was "downplaying his more leftward tendencies".
My question was, what specific legislation that you know of has you believing Obama is not a centrist; that he is in fact leftward leaning democrat?
Do you know this for a fact or are you just repeating spin you have heard?
As far as not wanting to see radical change, these last 8 years must have been torture for you.
I'll grant you I might not have worded it as well as I could have. I agree,
there's not enough of a legislative history to suggest which way he might lean on any number of unanticipated dilemmas he could face as president. And
I don't deny the possibility he could end up one of my all time favorites. I wouldn't predict that, but I can always hope. But again, Presidents don't rule by fiat. (Well, there was Lincoln and FDR.) The Congress, regardless of the party in charge, tends to want to have their say.
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I would welcome a traditional Republican in office; one who believes in fiscal responsibility, small government, government that does not invade a persons privacy, government who allows people to live and let live (rather than tell them who to love or what to do with their bodies...etc.).
There's plenty of room for agreement here, though I'm sure we have differences on what "etc." might entail. As far as privacy concerns, I don't fault the government for wanting to know if I have bin Laden on speed dial, or cracking down on "kiddie porn". In some ways, I'm not with the republican mainstream. I absolutely oppose "three strikes and you're out" laws and the mindset that laughs with glee at every Jay Leno prison joke. (I have no problem with the death penalty, but if I'm ever called for jury duty, the prosecution better PROVE their case.) I've never complained about having to pay taxes, or that they're not all spent for my direct benefit. ("Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" - words spoken by a democrat president that have always stuck with me.) I know what it is to discuss "pulling the plug" on a child with her doctors, and would not have welcomed the government's involvement in that decision. (I'm thankful for the prayers, many from people I've never met, that contributed to her recovery and that one extra year of her life in this world.) And despite the fact I'm a christian, I don't want to see a theocracy imposed on anyone, including and especially me. (I don't really know anyone who does.) But I don't want a secular belief system imposed on me either.
If somehow these words sound "canned", maybe it's because they are carefully chosen. That's one of the advantages of writing over speaking, you actually get the chance to think about what you want to say. I should probably shut up now.
Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Oct. 08 2008, 4:24 PM)
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I beg to differ.
Do we really have to beg to differ?
Ain't too proud to beg...
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However, his proposals dealing with health care, taxes, gun control,
supreme court nominees, etc. are all socialist. Also, his ally's,
both politcal (in Illinois) and personal are socialists.
Am I wrong?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=socialist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
http://sp-usa.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
That’s the one.
Although, I’m not making a statement of preference or not.
Just pointing out that Obama definately has socialist views,
which may be considered to be left of center by many
observers.
Right or Wrong? Not sure.
Read a nice point.
Why is capitalism so successful?
Because when it get’s in trouble it gets bailed out
by socialism.
Who knows?
7/11,
It seems to me that Bush and his cabinet have pulled the most socialist move ever in the history of the United States by far. Buying up banks and insurance companies has essentially created the First United States Bank of America and the United States insurance company.
As far as Obama having socialist views, there is some weight to this but only in the fact that he would like to offer all Americans the right to health insurance. I realize that being healthy is not considered a right by the pure capitalists, but I don’t believe that pure capitalists would believe in a 700 billion dollar payout to failing banks and insurance companies either.
Personally, I would let those banks and insurance companies fail. But I believe that through intense deregulation, the health insurance companies have created a monster system that is more inclined toward profits than health insurance. So in this case where the welfare of the people of this nation is in jeopardy, the government must step in a rescue it’s people. Is that socialist? Maybe, maybe not. But it is the right thing to do.
Mike
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It seems to me that Bush and his cabinet have pulled the most socialist move ever in the history of the United States by far.
Buying up banks and insurance companies has essentially created the First United States Bank of America and the United States insurance company.
ABSOLUTELY
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As far as Obama having socialist views, there is some weight to this but only in the fact that he would like to offer all Americans the right to health insurance.
I realize that being healthy is not considered a right by the pure capitalists, but I don't believe that pure capitalists would believe in a 700 billion dollar payout to failing banks and insurance companies either
No Argument here either. Like I said before - If we could come up
with 700bil for 'Bankers who no longer trust each other with our money'
- we could have come up with that for National Health Care.
Yeh, I am socialist in that respect. Health care and Education,
should be in the interest of All Americans. I consider it a good
investment for our country. And if we stop spending money on useless,
pork-barrel, and other extremely bad programs, the tax burden could
be handled without any significant increase to most tax-payers.
Aw… heck. Never mind…
D
For any of you who might be interested, Tomorrow is Federal Election Day over here…
For the last term, we have been sporting a Minority Government…
It has been somewhat Right-Center…
Most people around here hope that by Wednesday we’ll still have a minority Government but somewhat Left-Center Government…
Now, having a Minority Government means to most of us that nothing gets legislated…
Having said that the Purse Strings get held pretty tight by the Political Criminals cause they know the others are watching…
What we’re voting for over here is …
The left-center wants a Carbon Tax…
and the right-center wants to give the upper-crust a Big Raise…
Last week the out-going Government bought up all the mortgages…
so now it seems we pay our mortgages to ourselves…
We’re not sure how much the interest rate will be…
We’ll find that out after we vote tomorrow…
What’s that if it ain’t Socialism.
?
I promise to vote…
BUT…
I may spoil the ballot…
If you don’t vote you allow others to use the ballot to vote for who-ever…
You say that can’t happen…
Yes-it-can…
AND…
voting is Not Anomonious…
Bill…
.
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The left-center wants a Carbon Tax…
See. That’s the kind of **** we got to get rid of.
Big time liberal idiots. (As well as big time right-wing idiots)
Sounds like you’re gettin screwed by both sides.
uhhhhhh
My phone didn’t ring…
They never called me to ask me what their “Plank” should be…
I would have told them…
Now I’m gonna vote for all of them…
to make sure they get It Right…
This time…
This is a most serious time to be alive in all of my days…
In the last two weeks my life’s savings have been picked over by the world’s Suits-and-Ties…
They never asked me for a cent…
They just took it…
One guy I talked to about it says if I don’t need the money now I should just sit-and-wait…
It’ll come back…
I doubt it, though…
I don’t think I can hold my breath much longer…
He’s saying…
In a few years…
I wouldn’t be here then…
I’m considering on tellin’ Them I’m building a Porn Studio…
and asking Them who wants to be a Star…
Bill…
Pure systems don’t work fellers… be afraid of socialism all you want… but in the right dose it is a good thing. As is Communism… thank god… the human family unit would be a real disaster without communism. BTW, what’s wrong with a carbon tax? The old capitalist mantra is if you want to kill something, tax it. Sounds like a proper solution to me. Or are we talking about printer toner?
Edit: What’s the deal with the italics?
Quote: (Bubbagump @ Oct. 13 2008, 10:45 AM)
Edit: What's the deal with the italics?
They're people from Italy!