I’m just posting this to vent out my frustration, I’m pretty sure the good folks at Fasoft are working hard, but I must express my hardships with N-track Studio.
I became an N-Track Studio user mainly because of its great price. Since I was only starting to record my ideas I thought it was a good start.
3 years later, I have my own studio at home and most of my projects on N-track and the instability of it just have me on the brink of a nervous breakdown. I have tried to upgrade to the latest version but every time I have done so, the projects won’t work correctly in the new version of N-track. It seems to be a problem with the plugins or something. I have a new powerful computer, so I know that’s not the issue (AMD Athlon 64 Dual Core with 2 GB of RAM, Presonus Firepod in case you are wondering) Because I have not upgraded to the latest versions, and now I’m using a lot of tracks, many plugins, rewire, and the whole nine yards, N-track just keeps crashing and crashing. I will be honest with you, I love the N-track interface and have kind of grown addicted to it, but I have to make the transition into different.
I don’t have time to mess around with the program and figure out what the heck is wrong with it every other hour; I barely have time to write my own music.
Anyways, I hope I have not offended anyone, but needed to let out some steam.
Thank you for taking the time to read this post.
PS. Is there others out there with similar problems?
It’s stressy when time is limited and all you want to do is make music.
Unfortunately without putting some work into this you are not going to easily find the root of the problem. You’ve said yourself that you use lots of plugins … it could be any one of those plugins or maybe a combination of them that is causing the problem. Without a bit of trial and error you’ll not find out.
Also, it may be drivers, drivers, drivers… soundcard, video, mobo chipset… anything.
Remember that an n-track project full of plugins is a collection of code by all sorts of different programmers. The chance of there being a conflict or inconsistency is very high (especially as there is no guarantee on how well some of those plugins have been written - there are lots of amateurs out there!).
Add to that Rewire, the drivers, the o/s and and any other non-related software and I’m amazed that anything works at all.
Consider upgrading. Sure you may have to pay the pain of re-working your old projects but Flavio has fixed numerous bugs over the years. Perhaps your one is in there.
Also consider a fresh install of windows and only install the programs necessary for audio. Multitrack recording is still pretty intensive on the PC which hightens the chance for things to go wrong. A “powerful” PC on it’s own isn’t enough. It needs to be stable, clean, and upto date.
Also try some tests with some simple projects - few plugins - to see if you can track down the common factor.
Mark
Oh, and on the subject of annoying, your Avatar (I think) is liked to a page on forums.torrengra.com which insists of throwing up a login form EVERY time the topic is loaded. You may want to host your avatar elsewhere. 
When I upgraded to the new version because I wanted all the bundled fx, I started hearing pops and stuff like that. After spending a whole night thinking it through, I discovered the problem was with my buffer settings. I don’t remember the details because it’s been a while, but I haven’t had trouble since. I average about 12 tracks per song. Most tracks are using some sort of plugin. You might want to look into the buffer settings before you throw in the towel.
Demo new version is not working for me at all 
Crashing more everyday. Other demo programs work great, and n-track 3.3 works great.
I think maybe it is time to move on I know your pain
| Quote (Mark A @ Mar. 28 2006,01:49) |
| Oh, and on the subject of annoying, your Avatar (I think) is liked to a page on forums.torrengra.com which insists of throwing up a login form EVERY time the topic is loaded. You may want to host your avatar elsewhere.
|
Is that what that login was ?
I have a Presonus device like you do and an AMD athelon 64 chipset like you do.
I too was experiencing crashing problems when loading plugins. A common error message was, unable to open wave device yadda yadda yadda slow response time and finally system crash. I struggled with this for about 3 days, changing driver preferences etc… until I finally think I know what’s happened and how to solve the issue. At least with a Presonus Firebox and I’m very sure the drivers are similar to your Firepod.
Here’s what I think happened
When I installed my drivers (presonus) some of the presonus hardware devices were not automatically enabled in windows control panel. Namely the presonus midi devices. So I have manually enabled these.
Here’s what I’ve been noticing since using different driver setups and different program versions.
Presonus WDM driver and 16bit nTrack
Works well for 12 or so program openings then the system becomes unstable. Resetting all audio and midi preferences the program is stable again then will crash every 12 or so openings. Needless to say, I was about to throw my computer out the window. Thought problem was solved but nope.
Presonus WDM driver and 32bit nTrack
Same issues as above whether forcing 16 bit or using the cards 24bit processing.
Presonus ASIO driver and 32bit nTrack
1. Forcing 16bit. The program is very stable but the balance between latency and sound quality is unacceptable for me.
2. Not forcing 16bit using cards 24bit. The program is very stable. The VST and DX plugs that weren’t functioning are now working. Latency versus sound quality is not a problem which absolutely baffles me. You would think it would be more of an issue using 24bits as opposed to 16.
Summing it up, make sure your Presonus hardware devices are enabled fully in windows. Stay away from the WDM setup and go for the ASIO setup. I think that the firebox card likes to be treated as a 24 bit card and not as a 16 bit card. No 16 bit forcing. If you need some help with this write me back.
An observation.
No DAW will function perfectly if not optimised and equipped with the latest drivers for everything, i.e. soundcard drivers(preferably ASIO, low latency, self restarting possibility in the event of a buffer problem), graphics drivers (lots of them may claim solely the available bandwidth of the PCI bus for their own purposes or have stability issues), motherboard BIOS (there may be issues relating to stability and performance - check with the vendor), network (yes, really - the network drivers may be loaded even if no network connection is present), antivirus, other software etc. which may also affect the performance and stability of the system.
One site to check out is the MusicXP site - a lot of stability issues are addressed here, most of them relating to the ‘vanilla default’ configuration of Windows (the settings present right after installation).
I know it is a lot more fun to spend the time making music, but the choice really is to either spend a little bit of time honing the performance of your DAW now, and spend a lot of time in a smooth, productive environment, or to spend no time getting the machine up to scratch, and then spending all of the creative energy reserved for making music on solving problems as they pop up along the way.
Regarding vst plugins: as Mark A stated, they might be written by less experienced programmers, especially if they are found for free on the 'net, and inexperienced programmers do have a tendency to sometimes take one shortcut too many in order to make their plugin perform as fast as possible. (It never crashes for them, right?) This may lead to stability issues, especially in a non-Intel environment (most compilers optimise their code to the Intel platform unless told otherwise).
Phew! With that out of the way, get out your wrench and tune up that gear… - music will eventually come out of it all. 
Keep at it!
regards, Nils
Hi All:
I’m gonna add to this thread, the little bit, that I don’t know…
I know of a lot of audio guys that are very reluctant to upgrade any of their audio hardware or software after they get their setup working…
They don’t like the "latest/Greatest/newest, fastest gamers or anything creeping into their DAWs… They say, IT spells trouble for them… So, they’ll sit and hide while the music passes them by…
One thing I’ll have to say is, this DualCore 64-bit computer stuff is too far in the forefront yet for IT to be popular with the Audio guys that I know… and around…
I’m haveing trouble getting above and beyond these P-111 machines… I have a P-4 machine… but I’m gonna say, it’s not as stable as these Intel/ASUS based P-111’s I have.
So, haveing said that… I don’t think I’ll be moveing beyond these P-111’s in the near future, just yet… else’in I’ll be asking for a bunch of trouble and issues that I don’t need, right now…
I’ve had enough troube upgrading to XP as an Operating System… Thank you…
Bill…
[EDIT]
If Mark is correct, about that avatar… Dump that address real quick… It’s giv’in us all the Hee-Bee Gee-Bee’s 
Sorry bout that…
| Quote (Wihan Stemmet @ Mar. 28 2006,10:42) | ||
Is that what that login was ?
|
Yep I just viewed the source for the page. It’s this line that does it:
Which is ecomusic’s avatar. I guess that forum doesn’t allow direct linking to files.
I have to go with Bill on this one.
Sometimes the biggest and the best does not equal stability.
I have two machines I use for music. My main PC is a Pentium 4 2.4GB box with a gig of ram, a GeForce 6600GT etc etc. I am using an m-audio Fast Track USB for recording. All drivers/BIOS/etc are the latest and everything is running fine. However, I have a horrible time getting any of my music software to work. I don’t use a lot of plugins - Guitar Rig would be the only one off hand, and I have been fighting to get it working as a VST plugin and recording with the Live effects turned on. No dice. Program crashes, playback skips even if I turn off the Live effects whatever problems I have seem to linger and I have to re-boot the machine to clear them up. And not using plugins causes these symptoms as well. I’ve tried an ASIO setup, a WDM setup and even an MME setup… the MME setup allows me to playback tunes in n-Track, but the recording is abysmal. Yes, I have played with my buffer settings constantly and nothing seems to work.
My second machine is an Acer Aspire laptop with a Celeron 1.5GB chip, 512MB of ram, On Board graphics, and a 5400rpm hard drive. I use the Fast Track on this machine too. And you know what? Everything runs aboslutely perfect. I can import my drum tracks from Fruity into n-Track, fire up GuitarRig as a VST plugin and record to my hearts content with the Live effects turned on. The ASIO setup works like a dream and I have my buffers set rather low.
It’s really strange that the slower, “budget” machine does a better job … both have WinXP Pro installed and I have turned off ALL system hogging services and tweaked the crap out of Windows so I can get better performance out of it. Yet the big, bad PC simply refuses to do anything musical for any length of time while the wimpy laptop loves all things musical and never skips a beat. In fact the ONLY problem I have is a random error when closing n-Track after recording for a few hours straight.
-shrug-
Ah well, I can’t complain. Playing and recording on a laptop looks cooler than recording on a PC
Side note: I use n-Track 3.3. I’ve tried 4.x and had nothing but stability problems with it. It may have to do with .NET … I have never had a good experience with any app written aroudn .NET.
First of all let me thank all of you for taking the time to read and write. I truly appreciate that more than any solution that may arise from any of this!
Avatar has been changed, that was from another forum that I belong to.
I took the time to read each answer and I must say I agree with most.
Now that Im a bit more calm let me explain a bit further.
I have the advantage (feels more like a disadvantage!) to work with computers all around me. I work for an e-commerce website. I have used numerous computers and owned a few. I actually used N-track frequently to record sales and marketing meetings in my office, so with that excuse I have installed N-track in a few different machines. Mainly they have been Intel based, ranging from 256 MB to 1 GB of RAM.
The machine that I had been using up until a couple of weeks ago was a Pentium 4 2.0 Ghz with 1 Gb of RAM. I had it hooked up with the Presonus Firepod. If there is one thing that I totally agree with, is the fact that version 3.3 was just stable. I never had a problem with it. Problems started after that version.
I even tried N-track on a brand new Dell Pentium D 3.2Ghz with 4 Gb of RAM, Raid drivers (the works!). Guess what? it still crashed. Im convinced that it is a setup issue with the program and Im also convinced that the last version before getting the .NET upgrade is probably the most unstable of all.
woxnerw with regards to the dual core, I recommend looking at the following link and clicking on the “Dual Core Demo” http://www.intel.com/products/processor/pentium_D/index.htm
Thanks to everyone once again for the links and tips. I will take the time to go through them carefully.
Perhaps one of the reasons I was so upset is because I have a big meeting coming up soon with a high profile executive in the music industry here in Miami and I will be showing her some of my songs, and I still have things to work on them Im scared to death, but I guess thats what all this work is for right?
If anyone wants to check out my blog its http://comouno.blogspot.com/
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| My second machine is an Acer Aspire laptop with a Celeron 1.5GB chip, 512MB of ram, On Board graphics, and a 5400rpm hard drive. I use the Fast Track on this machine too. And you know what? Everything runs aboslutely perfect. I can import my drum tracks from Fruity into n-Track, fire up GuitarRig as a VST plugin and record to my hearts content with the Live effects turned on. The ASIO setup works like a dream and I have my buffers set rather low. It’s really strange that the slower, “budget” machine does a better job … both have WinXP Pro installed and I have turned off ALL system hogging services and tweaked the crap out of Windows so I can get better performance out of it. Yet the big, bad PC simply refuses to do anything musical for any length of time while the wimpy laptop loves all things musical and never skips a beat. In fact the ONLY problem I have is a random error when closing n-Track after recording for a few hours straight. |
Hi there !
It does makes sense in a weird way. The Acer is factory built with its internal chipset and components probably better matched than a clone type of PC. It does a little for speed, but it does waaay more for stability.
I see it all the time. ‘Branded’ pc’s are for the most part just put together so well that they are more stable than ‘fastest components slapped together’ clone PC’s. (Unless you research it to the ends of the earth and put together a killer PC with components that play very nicely with each other)…
W>
| Quote (Wihan Stemmet @ Mar. 29 2006,02:11) | ||
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Hi there ! It does makes sense in a weird way. The Acer is factory built with its internal chipset and components probably better matched than a clone type of PC. It does a little for speed, but it does waaay more for stability. I see it all the time. ‘Branded’ pc’s are for the most part just put together so well that they are more stable than ‘fastest components slapped together’ clone PC’s. (Unless you research it to the ends of the earth and put together a killer PC with components that play very nicely with each other)… W> |
I research, don’t get me wrong. I’m very anal that way. This is why my PC is 32 bit, AGP as opposed to first gen, 64 bit, dual core, PCI-E something something…
It took me a good 6 months of comparing motherboards, chipsets, cpus, video etc etc before I finally got to the setup I have. I was, however, building it from a graphics/gaming standpoint rather than a DAW standpoint. This could be part of the problem.
Major brands do build stable computers as far as hardware, but they leave a lot of things to be desired when it comes to software configurations… I think this is why the laptop is good for audio - becuase I hosed it and reinstalled Windows without all the added “Productivity” and trial software.
Although my entire post from yesterday is now null and void. As of last night, n-track will simply not work on either machine. I guess I jinxed myself…
Ouch !
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| becuase I hosed it and reinstalled Windows without all the added “Productivity” and trial software. |
You’ve got that right.
Software that works like that irks me as well…
Nils K thank you very much for the tip on MusicXP.com
The tuning tips are out of control! I followed every single one and noticed the results immediately after rebooting. I was running N-track with 20 tracks of audio, about 1 or 2 (sometimes more) plugins per track, 3ms latency and Very high buffering, and it worked like a charm!
It was also impressive to see how even opening a program now will bring my CPU usage up, because now N-track is getting more of the juice it needed.
It was so good to just work without any problems. I worked from 10:00 pm to 3:40 am 
I think Im going to finish the songs I need to show in a few days, and afterwards upgrade to the latest version of N-track and work project by project, untill everything works good.
I honestly dislike the Cubase interface, it is not as user friendly as N-track.
Anyways, just a quick update to all of you who helped out.
By the way, I have to agree with the previous comments about brand computers. Part of the higher cost you may pay goes towards the fact that they have tested many of the components together and have found them to be reliable.
Any advice that may be offered about copyrighting my music?
I know I have to do it through copyright.gov, but it was not clear to me if I can copyright a number of my songs for the same price, or if I have to send 1 by 1.
comments?
| Quote (evomusic @ Mar. 29 2006,12:15) |
| Any advice that may be offered about copyrighting my music? I know I have to do it through copyright.gov, but it was not clear to me if I can copyright a number of my songs for the same price, or if I have to send 1 by 1. comments? |
Not sure about the USA, but in Canada you can copyright stuff by placing a copy of the music in an envlope and mailing it to yourself.
As soon as the package is stamped at the post office, it is kind of a legal seal with the date stamped on it. When you get the envelope back, DO NOT open it.
Should you have any problems with someone ripping off your stuff, take them to court and have the judge open the envelope. This prooves that YOU made the music and it is yours based on the date of the stamp.
This of course is not as foolproof as actually registering your copyright, but it works in a tight situation or if you don’t have the bux or time to jump through the legal hoops.
It wont work. Too easy to send yourself a bunch of open evelopes and fill them whenever you see fit.
I’ve never heard of that ever working in court before. I do know many cases where it did not work though.
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| Nils K thank you very much for the tip on MusicXP.com … The tuning tips are out of control! … I honestly dislike the Cubase interface, it is not as user friendly as N-track. |
I agree with you on both those issues - happy to hear that you got it working properly now
A DAW is - probably with the exception of video editing and a few top-notch games - the most alienating task you can incur on a modern PC today. Luckily the hardware is up to scratch these days. The ‘vanila’ settings Windows presents when first installed are OK for modest home office work, a bit of surfing, and some light gaming and easy music listening - not serious music production, as the MusicXP site shows. My hope is for all DAW users (including n-Trackers and everyone else) to get to know at least the existence of this great site and what it has to offer, then use whatever info they can from it to their satisfaction.
I’ve just started using Cubase LE (came with the EMU 1820 soundcard of my new DAW, no harm done in installing it) and it does have its strengths and weaknesses, just like n-Track does. For now, I have decided to use it primarily for VSTi rendering, as it is too much of a challenge to ise for e.g. tracking or mixdown, compared to n-Track. (Volume envelopes do exist in Cubase, but only in the $$$$-ripping SX version - not the bundled LE version. The routing is logic, but rather confusing. To add a VST effect to a track you need to open four(!) windows and adjust settings everywhere. Took me a while to figure that out, never a problem in n-Track) The weakest point of n-Track in my opinion still is its ability to handle VSTi’s. I love n-Track for mixdown, though. So intuitive…
Good luck with your presentation, BTW!
regards, Nils