Vista64 RealTek multi-input??

Seeking to maximize Acer x1700

Hi,

I recently purchased an Acer Aspire x1700 MPC running Windows Vista 64-bit. It comes with integrated RealTek soundcard, and has three 2-channel inputs:
mic in (front)
mic in (rear)
line in (rear).

My drivers all say they are up-to-date.

Problem is I can only get two inputs working at a time in N-track. I try to fake it out by making the one that’s not working the “default recording device”, but the additional inputs merely duplicate one that N-track already recognizes.

Is this a problem in N-track? Or is it a limitation of the Realtek sound card, or of its drivers? If I can get all three inputs to be recognized simultaneously, I have an instant 6-track recorder…
how can I achieve this?

That’s the way it works, and the way most work. Those are all physical inputs to the same stereo input on the onboard soundcard/soundchip. Can’t do what you want with that card, or most consumer level cards. There are many other options to give you multi-input though, all involving additional hardware.

I figured that might be the case, but the RealTek programs seem to indicate that all of those inputs can be treated as separate audio streams… and if I go just by what’s in the headphones, this is indeed the case as I can hear all three. I just can’t seem to get N-track to see them all.

They can be treated as separate physical inputs, like a 6 channel mixer, but they still all lead to the same single output that may have similar (re)routing - headphones - line out - onboard speakers. You hear all three in the headphones, but can you hear just the line in in the headphones while playing something different out the speakers at the same time? You may be able to mix them in the Realtek mixer (maybe not) to use all three at once to record, but they will still route to the same single stereo pair as seen by apps like n-Tracks.

Quote:

Or is it a limitation of the Realtek sound card


mic in (front)
mic in (rear)

Are the same input most likely. They are simply parallel connected inside. At least that's how one machine I use to own was setup.

It may also be a driver limitation in that only one stereo source may be selected at a time. E.g. you can't use a mic-in and line-in at the same time.

D

Well see, that’s where I’m trying to fake it out. N-track sees two of the pairs (ANY two btw) as separate inputs. So I’m trying to fake it out by making the one NOT showing up in N-track the DEFAULT RECORDING DEVICE.

However, your post leads me to another possible way to fake it out using the Vista mixer. I’ll try that tonight… thanks for your replies!

You might also try ASIO4ALL. Google it…

It “wraps” the sound cards “normal” driver and presents it to hosts as an ASIO driver. I have heard of guys using ASIO4ALL to combine inputs from different physical cards to get extra inputs. The drawback is clock drift between two physical devices unless they are synch’d together via a common clock somehow.

I don’t if it will help in your particular instance. I’m betting not… Phoo is most likely correct in that it is also a physical limitation of how the card is wired internally.

D

Quote:

N-track sees two of the pairs (ANY two btw) as separate inputs.

What are the names of the pairs as they show up in n-Tracks?
Quote: (phoo @ Apr. 16 2009, 11:23 AM)

What are the names of the pairs as they show up in n-Tracks?

The ones that work:
MME line in
MME rear mic in
MME front mic in

Any combo of two of the above works.

There's a duplicate list with another tag that does NOT work, that yields format errors and other problems. When I get home, I'll look at it and post specifics.

UPDATE:

Ahhhh crud. Can’t get it to handle more than 2 inputs, even with ASIO4ALL.

Not only that… the Realtek and Vista sound utilities are listing a “front line input” that ASIO says is working properly. Problem is, there is no physical front-panel line input! And of course since I cannot plug anything into that nonexistent jack, Vista won’t let me disable it.

Gotta say, audio was sooo much easier in previous versions of Windows.

Welcome to the world of software. Just because something is exposed via software doesn’t mean it physically exists on the machine. What it usually means is that the soundchip supports it and the diver sees it, but it’s not there. That is typical.

One of my machines (Dell desktop) says it has 64 channels IN and 64 channels OUT, via single multi-channel streams, yet it has a single stereo line OUT on the back and and single mono mic IN on the front. If I try to use any more than 8 channels it will crash in the driver. Ironically, doesn’t do any good to use 8 channels since there are no physical connections…

You are seeing, in software, what the chip could support if it were physically wired and coded in some way…which it’s not.

I uninstalled and then re-installed the soundcard many times. In each case, the phantom front line in returns when I tell the system to see all poirt as separate inputs. So I’ve given up on that idea. I also seached everywhere for a low-profile PCIe x1 sound card. No such thing exists.

My next idea? Edirol FA101 firewire interface. If I can get its 8 inputs working with the existing 4, that will be sufficient.

Make sure you DON’T have the Ricoh firewire chipset on that Acer. If you do - you may be stuck.

From another forum:

Quote:

So I decided I would just scrap attempting to use the Realtek and buy an external audio card (since I do a lot of audio recording anyway) and bought myself a Presonus Firebox. So now you probably know where this is going… Yes, I discovered (after RMA-ing my Presonus for an Edirol FA-101) that my Acer contains within it another terribly flawed piece of hardware: the Ricoh chipset that controls my Firewire and card reader. Woah is me… According to just about every pro audio soundcard manufacturer the Texas Instruments chipset is the bee’s knees and the Ricoh should be avoided like the plague

The firewire chipset is VIA OHCI.

It’s gotten good reviews… hope I don’t have difficulty.

Quote:

Edirol FA101 firewire interface. If I can get its 8 inputs working with the existing 4, that will be sufficient.


If you NEED 12 inputs, I highly recommend getting an interface WITH 12 inputs. Getting that Edirol to work in conjunction with the on board RealTek will be difficult if not impossible for several reasons.

D
Quote: (Diogesneez @ Apr. 20 2009, 8:49 AM)

If you NEED 12 inputs, I highly recommend getting an interface WITH 12 inputs. Getting that Edirol to work in conjunction with the on board RealTek will be difficult if not impossible for several reasons.

I'd LIKE all 12, but I could live with 8. Mostly because I'm not releasing the next mega-selling rap CD so I can't really afford to dump a grand or more for the additional inputs; all I want to do is record my band's live sessions with some parts isolated for experimentation.

I'm hoping ASIO4ALL will be able to handle the multiple sets of inputs. If not, oh well....

But you don’t have 4 existing inputs. You have a chip that has a stereo input and software that exposes that single input in multiple ways, and physical inputs that are wired via software and routed to that single input on the chip. (your chip doesn’t have multiple AD coverters)

You will need to do exactly what D suggests if you want more inputs than 2 mono or 1 stereo.

On the other hand, if all you need is ‘inputs’ then get a mixer.

Quote: (phoo @ Apr. 20 2009, 9:20 AM)

But you don't have 4 existing inputs. You have a chip that has a stereo input and software that exposes that single input in multiple ways, and physical inputs that are wired via software and routed to that single input on the chip. (your chip doesn't have multiple AD coverters)

You will need to do exactly what D suggests if you want more inputs than 2 mono or 1 stereo.

On the other hand, if all you need is 'inputs' then get a mixer.

The chip has two physically distinct stereo inputs. That equals 4 channels of input if I choose to send separate signals along each channel. I've tested it, and it accurately records four separate channels. No time alignment problems, no audio loss whatsoever. So for all practical purposes, it functions as I've described... even if it's working through a single converter.

I already have a mixer. A few of them in fact. I currently record every session direct to DVD.

I'll test it when the new gear arrives, and report back.

Cool. Sounds like there’s a new chip config from Realtek I’m not familiar with. Seems like maybe Flavio need to tak a look and see what’s up if only n-Track has a problem doing 4 at once.