I have a solution that has been working for me for years…just don’t use them! tee hee
But seriously folks hopefully you guys find a solution to this because I can imagine it is not even possible to record and edit music properly without a node. 
keep shinin
jerm 
This thread is very interesting, it’s useful to know the difficulties people are having with envelope editing.
Here’s a few things I’m planning to implement in the next build to fix the current weirdness with envelopes editing:
- Make default envelope node size slightly bigger (it can be customized in the “Preferences/Appearance/Envelopes editing/ranges” box). I bet not a lot of you knows about the box existance, so…
- Add a command to open the “Preferences/Appearance/Envelopes editing/ranges” in the envelopes editing context menu
- Make the default envelope editing mode requiring to Shift+click or right click and select “Add node here” from popup menu to add a new node (you can change this already right clicking and deactivating “Click adds node”)
- Add an option (in the envelopes editing right click context menu) to enable editing nodes of all selected tracks, as opposed to only editing the node of the track you’re clicking on. By default you’ll only edit the track you’re clicking on.
Comments are welcome.
Flavio.
Thanks Flavio,
Your suggestion should go along way to making the node editing a better experience, with faster work flow and a cool set of options to tailor it for the user. Keep up the great work as it is appreciated.
PACO
Quote: (Flavio Antonioli @ Dec. 10 2009, 5:35 AM)
By default you'll only edit the track you're clicking on.
This is the way it should be. It's nice to be able to select multiple tracks thou, but I think that should be executed by something that is very precise and intentional.
Like pressing cntr and the click the wanted tracks. Like it is now, but without the possibility to make the selection accidentally at same time by some other means.
Maybe something in the preferences?
One other side note concerning the node and unwanted track selection discussion, is that from my experience, the farther to the extremes a node is being placed (i.e. +/- 6.0 db) the more likely an adjacent track will be inadvertantly selected. Still not sure if this is human error or a bug.
In any case, thanks for working on this Flavio.
Jeremy,
We sort of ignored your question.
In my opinion- and others on this forum are way more experienced on these matters than I- nodes are just another tool to achieve a particular sound you’re after. No more or less than any other, such as compression, effects etc…
It’s not always necessary to make volume or pan changes in order to make a great song or mix, but the same could be said for most other techniques/devices.
Also, for people like me who make mistakes often during recording, these are good tools- especially the volume automation, to correct the mistake rather than, let’s say, recording a new track (especially if I think I’ll never get it right again!).
I know you could “punch in” another take- but there again, yet another tool at your disposal.
Hope you can make some sense from these ramblings…
Quote: (GeoffO @ Dec. 10 2009, 8:47 PM)
One other side note concerning the node and unwanted track selection discussion, is that from my experience, the farther to the extremes a node is being placed (i.e. +/- 6.0 db) the more likely an adjacent track will be inadvertantly selected. Still not sure if this is human error or a bug.
In any case, thanks for working on this Flavio.
Yes this is problem for me too. You have described it perfectly. Thats why my suggestion of a separate screen to do node editing could provide the space needed but I can only suggest. I'm sure Flavio will come up with something to address this particular issue.
PACO
The envelope name tag showing only at the beginning of the song is still an problem, right? A “floating” tag should work, don’t have to be a small one either.
Also, especially when working with FX or instrument envelopes, you can run out of tracks, the envelopes are placed on empty ones under the actual tracks, far away from the tracks they are actually associated to. This is a bit confusing, sometimes. I have not tried moving the empty lanes, wonder if it works…
I:-T
Quote: (GeoffO @ Dec. 10 2009, 9:15 PM)
Jeremy,
We sort of ignored your question.
In my opinion- and others on this forum are way more experienced on these matters than I- nodes are just another tool to achieve a particular sound you're after. No more or less than any other, such as compression, effects etc...
It's not always necessary to make volume or pan changes in order to make a great song or mix, but the same could be said for most other techniques/devices.
Also, for people like me who make mistakes often during recording, these are good tools- especially the volume automation, to correct the mistake rather than, let's say, recording a new track (especially if I think I'll never get it right again!).
I know you could "punch in" another take- but there again, yet another tool at your disposal.
Hope you can make some sense from these ramblings...
OK that makes sense
So using the nodes sounds like using AUX sends and inserts on a mixing board with faders only in the digital automatically instead of using hardware manually.
I must still be doing things the slow way, fade out, pan, snip, the mistakes out etc on each track then mix it down and bring it back into a project......
Like I said I tried it once a few years back and ended up with a huge but multi-colorful connect the dots pattern over all the tracks! and then I couldn't get rid of them!
I suppose I could try it again if it is going to save me time in the long run....but the learning curve is pretty big on this one.
keep shinin
jerm
In my opinion, all of the different envelopes need to have a floating name tag showing what the envelope line is effecting, and a separate track window needs to open when using the envelopes that change more than one track or perimeter (effect perimeter settings or the group volume setting envelopes). Having the display on top of tracks that are unrelated to the changes is confusing. Granted, it does give you some idea of where you are in the song, but Maybe display the navigator screen or the master channel wave form where relevant.
You guys got any thoughts or comments?
Bax
A new track window would eat up screen space and make things more cluttered, IMHO. How about the track in the timeline would change color to something predefined, when the envewlope is not realated to the track, instead? Like grey for instruments, white for FX or whatever.
But the name tags would go along way, all by themselves.
I:-T
Definately name tags for the automation lines! But we already ordered that…
I don’t need another window for the automation, but if someone wants taht and it’s optional then why not.
I just came from the studio and I noticed yet anotherway to accidentally select unwanted tracks for volume automation.
This way: you select a track you want to select. The you concentrate on a part, typically like a guitar solo part so you loop it. When you highlite that part with a mouse in the upper part of the window you happen to select the track that is in the up then.
So I end up making nods to track 12 and 3 for example.
I wonder if screen and mouse resolution has something to do with the nodes sort of slipping out of hand. With a 24" high-res screen, should I have something more accurate than a basic, optical-Logitech Pilot?
I:-T
Quote: (varakeef @ Dec. 13 2009, 9:30 AM)
I just came from the studio and I noticed yet anotherway to accidentally select unwanted tracks for volume automation.
This way: you select a track you want to select. The you concentrate on a part, typically like a guitar solo part so you loop it. When you highlite that part with a mouse in the upper part of the window you happen to select the track that is in the up then.
So I end up making nods to track 12 and 3 for example.
Version 6.0.8 beta contains some fixes related to envelopes editing, including the option to apply edits to all selected tracks or only on the track you're clicking on.
If anyone tries envelope editing with the new build I'd be glad to hear their comments.
Thanks,
Flavio.
Hi folks. I genuinely wish I was as sharp as you guys. I’m trying to learn the theory as best I can so that I really know the ropes when I’ve built my new ‘space’.
Some of you have said that the ‘auto’ and ‘node’ issues goes way-back? Occasionaly, I have used the beta V’s but on the whole, Ive just run the regular updates - and, in all honesty, without switching my machine over to ‘the other side’, I couldn’t tell you which V it is:-(
When this thread popped-up, I loaded a stereo track and split it into two monos and played around with this feature - nothing big, just a few nodes for vol and pan. At first it seamed to work ok (again, wouldn’t know the V at the time) but last week all the above probs appeared.
Quote: (Flavio Antonioli @ Dec. 15 2009, 9:45 AM)
Version 6.0.8 beta contains some fixes related to envelopes editing, including the option to apply edits to all selected tracks or only on the track you're clicking on.
If anyone tries envelope editing with the new build I'd be glad to hear their comments.
Thanks, Flavio!
Sounds like just the right option you've made there. One thing thou: is it possible to select multiple tracks for noding even if "apply edits only on the track you're clicking on" is opted somehow?
You see, I have no problems with selecting multiple tracks for automating by pressing Ctrl down and then actively click the wanted tracks. I just wish I could turn off selections made by some irregular mouse moves.
(Sorry, I can't comment on beta builds since I'm not willing to try those in the middle of a recording session.)
Quote: (Flavio Antonioli @ Dec. 15 2009, 5:45 PM)
Version 6.0.8 beta contains some fixes related to envelopes editing, including the option to apply edits to all selected tracks or only on the track you're clicking on.
If anyone tries envelope editing with the new build I'd be glad to hear their comments.
Thanks,
Flavio.
Sounds good, many thanks!
I'm hoping I'd have time for a bit of mixing this weekend, if I do I'll try the new beta and report back.
I:-T
How do you insert volume envelopes into just the clip that you’ve spliced, instead of the whole track?
Quote: (stlpckr @ Dec. 23 2010, 11:39 AM)
How do you insert volume envelopes into just the clip that you've spliced, instead of the whole track?
You can't... but you can get a free tuner for your iPhonk!
UJ