VSTi Recording Setup pointers

Quote (Bubbagump @ Oct. 17 2004,14:00)
As far as I know, the MOTU does not have the ability to route an out to an in internally.


My cheapo $20 SBLive! can do this, I have to imagine a MOTU can as well. Actually, I can't think of a single sound card that doesn't allow you to record the wave output. Crankz, are you around? You have a MOTU, don't you? In my EMU and Creative cards I have played with, you just set the sound card's mixer to record the wave output, so in MOTU I would imagine it has a similar interface that allows this.

/still hard headed
I don't use any virtual instruments, but after some simple testing using a wave file, trying to internally route the output via CueMix back as the input of a new recorded track ... I'm not having much success.
CueMix does offer a setting for "CueMix Input Includes Computer Output" .... which kinda sounds like Creative's "What U Hear" to me, but I can't seem to figure it out at the moment.
Like you, I would think it should be doable, but as of yet I'm just getting pegged meters on the new track.
I'd have to kick the thought around a bit and play with some settings as far as the I/O and some of the other ASIO monitoring stuff.
All in all, I would think it to be better to just mix-down the VSTi to save from additional D/A and A/D conversion.

Bubba,

No confusion on my part. I am simply amazed there is no bussing in N-track. All the other pro packages with much less “bang for the buck” have this feature…

I am sure you can bounce the vsti down to a wav in the ways suggested, but just seems a clumsy way comparatively…

My original problem with recording midi and mixing down was that I was recording live improvisation with a whole band, I wasn’t inputting any midi to be recorded, and I never tried to see if the tweaking of the vsti created any midi data to be recorded either, so the mixdown method seemed convoluted to me at the time.

Now, Ed, I don’t see how recording the vsti’s audio directly could possibly take longer than first recording the midi input and then mixing it down to an audio track. Maybe I don’t understand something. I welcome explanation. That’s the absolute beauty of this forum :)

I agree 100% that ultimately the result is the same. ####, the midi/mixdown way would allow you to correct mistakes or make changes without having to re-record the track, I assume. I just have to agree with clark that it seems like N, being the kick ass software that it is, would have more flexible internal signal routing, i.e. internal bussing of an out to an in. It doesn’t really detract from this kick ass software, it just makes you approach certain situations differently.

Plus there’s always future updates to look forward to… :)

JS

Clark, I am not saying you are confused. I am confused in what you are describing. Could you go deeper. I don’t understand what “internal bussing” would do that N doesn’t already do. I may just be confused on terminology.

As for butttruck (There, I said your name with a straight face… :) ) I would always record the MIDI, always. MIDI takes such an absolutely tiny amount of space, the flexibility it affords you to fix mistakes, change sounds, etc. is a huge advantage. If you later find a piano sound you chose doesn’t really sit well, get a different piano and you are off. No rerecording, it’s easy.

Hey Bubba,

Maybe N-track CAN buss signals, and I am unaware of it…I don’t mix or edit with N-track, so I don’t know.

Basically what I mean is this…

Being able to select a bus to send the signal from your VSTi track and then select that bus as your input source on a new audio track. With that configuration, “bussing” the audio signal from the VSTi to a new audio track. I guess it is just bouncing the signal down, in essence, as we did on the old analog 8 track or 4 track.

Well, that particular feature, no, you can’t do it in that fashion. You need to render to wav and then import to a new track. I don’t see the use of such a feature as it is essentially a mix down in real time with the “replace mixed down tracks” option selected. I suppose if you want to ride faders or something it would be handy, but that is why automation and envelope drawing exists. I don’t see it as a show stopper, but I guess it could be a “nice to have”. It just sounds like trying to force an analog paradigm on a digital tool to me.

Quote (Bubbagump @ Oct. 18 2004,09:26)
It just sounds like trying to force an analog paradigm on a digital tool to me.

Maybe so.


Cheers,
C
Quote (Bubbagump @ Oct. 18 2004,08:54)
As for butttruck (There, I said your name with a straight face.... :) ) I would always record the MIDI, always. MIDI takes such an absolutely tiny amount of space, the flexibility it affords you to fix mistakes, change sounds, etc. is a huge advantage. If you later find a piano sound you chose doesn't really sit well, get a different piano and you are off. No rerecording, it's easy.

Hey, just imagine people asking "what's the name of your band?" all the time and I have to, with a proud and straight face, say "butttruck".... :;):

I completely understand and agree about the advantages of dealing with midi vs. audio. Like I said before though, I was in a particular situation where recording midi data didn't seem the obvious choice or perhaps not even possible. Plus it would have been against the spirit of our live improv recording with warts and all...

I don't think the lack of "internal bussing", as we're calling it now, is a showstopper either. I definately would appreciate such an option though, if for nothing else than to have an option.

oh, and Jason is just fine if butttruck offends anyone's taste :D

JS

Oh, I remember you now! ok. Yeah. we couldn’t even really figure out if there was a way TO record a midi track. right. ok. Yeah. For you, no it is not easier. And for a lot of people it may not be faster, either. For me, though, it is. I actually compose my parts as I am writing the midi file. It doesn’t exist in any form before that. Some people may have the parts already written in their heads and just play it out. I don’t. And since I can’t play piano, I have to input it. Now if I had a MIDI guitar, THAT would be another story… drools

fish

Man you all really have filled this thread out!

Cool.

Ok my latest adventures in VSTi stuff. I created a midi track, output it to a VSTi synth, create a pair of audio tracks to record off the soundcard output. Hit the “LIVE” button. Playing keys on my keyboard gives me audio I can hear just fine.

But when recording, the track starts, 5-10 seconds into it it crashes NT out to the system. (XPHome SP2 512mb RAM 1.8Ghz P4) Tried several different synths so I don’t think it is them.

CPU usage is 14%-16%. Errors also occur if I only do maybe 3-4 secs of recording and then hit stop.

Keep this thread growing. A lot of good info is there.

Thx,

Curt

Well IndiaQA,

AS futzy as it is, the way to do it, I think is this:

Solo your midi and VSTi track and do a mixdown to a .wav

Then import that wav to your project.

Futzy, but workable


EDIT I take some of my harsh criticism back. I just found out you can’t do this in Nuendo, either!!! Man, that’s just wrong.