N-Tracks creating weird noise?
I’ve been recording using a external mixing board (analog Yamaha 16 track) into a Delta 44, into N-Tracks. I don’t know why this is happening but I get some weird distortion that is added to most tracks. It’s almost like a lower frequency (150-1000hz) distortion that is kind of vocal like. The actual sound waves reflect this distortion and it does copy over if I copy the tracks down. My system is a 2.8 GHZ process with 1.5 Gig of ram.
I do have the outputs of the Delta 44 hooked up to the same mixer as the inputs but everything is shut off during recording. I am using the aux outs of the board to record the channels. Could there be some interference by routing it through the same board?
Has anyone come across this type of distortion before? Do I need to clarify?.. maybe post an actual clip of it?
I really appreciate any help you can provide. I am a relative newbie and have tried several different solutions to this problem but to no avail.
Definitly post a clip. Sounds like some kind of modulation.
http://www.unionmadeband.com/weirdnoise_mixdown01.wav
Please excuse the brief foul language. I was recording a punk song.
Your assistance is greatly appreciated. A N-Tracks packed song file (63 MB) is also located below.
http://www.unionmadeband.com/weirdnoise.sgw
I’m no expert on this stuff.
I downloaded the packed song looked at the vumeters and each wave seperately. It is noticeable in two tracks especially, and both those tracks the volume is quite high. I’m wondering if it is distortion from clipping. Bass track and Collins?? guitar track.
Just a guess.
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I do have the outputs of the Delta 44 hooked up to the same mixer as the inputs but everything is shut off during recording. |
This concerns me somewhat. What do you mean by “shut off”? There may still be some crosstalk or feedback path between the output and input tracks. The only way to really do this successfully is to have a mixer with direct outs.
I haven’t listened to your tracks (at work) so I may be talking a load of twaddle.
I don’t believe that the problem comes from high volume on each track because the same thing has happened with quiet sources. I will test that again, though.
As for “shut off”, I have routed two outputs from the Delta 44 into two input tracks of the mixer. I was using the 3 aux sends of the mixer to send to the inputs of the Delta 44. If the two input tracks to the mixer aren’t sent to the aux sends, then there shouldn’t be any interference, right?
Ya it’s not clipping. It seems to be affecting the left channel more than the right and is really noticeable in tracks with more bass freq.
Makes ya wonder if there is a ground loop somewhere in the left signal chain. Are your ins and outs balanced??
Is there any possibility your bass player let out a ripper in the mic?
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| As for “shut off”, I have routed two outputs from the Delta 44 into two input tracks of the mixer. I was using the 3 aux sends of the mixer to send to the inputs of the Delta 44. If the two input tracks to the mixer aren’t sent to the aux sends, then there shouldn’t be any interference, right? |
Shouldn’t be, but you may still get crosstalk, leakage, or a ground/earth loop or worse. Try it without the ins and outs connected to the same mixer and let us know.
Mark
I would suggest that it is unlikely that N-track is the source of the problem since it has relatively little to do with the creation of the wave files. That is the job of the soundcard and drivers, N-track just supervises the process. One possible issue would be if you had the digital format set incorrectly in the track settings. If you have the wrong bit-depth or word justification you can get clipping because the format is wrong.
I would also check your board settings to make sure you are not clipping somewhere in the signal chain before you get to the soundcard or that you do not have a problem in the soundcard itself. It is completely possible to clip in an analog section in front of the A/D converter and still show digital levels well below clipping. I have a DAT recorder that has a gain switch that swtches the preamp to a gain state that can be saturated without showing as an over-range on the meters. This is a design flaw but it is possible to do something similar accidently if you have a few gain stages in front of the converter. Frequently it is not possible to monitor levels at internal points of the mixer so it may not be obvious.
Jim
Try MarkA’ suggestion first. If that doesn’t fix it, see if you can learn anything from this:
When things get squirrely with the signal chain on my system, I grab my headphones, and find a sound source to plug into my mixer. Then I plug the headphones straight into the headphone jack on my mixer (which monitors post-preamp, pre-fader on my mixer) and I listen. Then I plug into the headphones jack on my computers audio interface direct monitor jack (which monitors pre-software, and you may or may not have). If all is OK then I listen to the output of the software ‘live’. This allows you to isolate the source of the problem.
Well, this is probably stupidly trivial approach that you have already tried, but it has often helped me solve problems.
Tim
Thank you very much for all the suggestions and problem shooting tactics. I will attempt tonight to see if any of these suggestions help me isolate the problem.
What happens to me sometimes is that when I have a few tracks (usually with some midi tracks as well) some of my tracks either stay quiet until I move the fader a little bit while in playback, or get too loud, and I have to move the fader for that track again in playback. It is a bug that n-track has, but you can fix it by moving the wave file either up or down, and sometime adding a blank audio file above or below the offending track. I know this is crappy solution, but you might want to write to Flavio to report the problem.
Another way to simplify your set-up might be to feed the soundcard from the inserts on the board (if present). This can approximate a direct out and works as long as the inserts aren’t already in use for effects. To allow the board to be used for monitoring you can create a special cable by using a TRS (stereo) plug with tip and ring tied together at the insert end and a mono plug at the other end (tip tied to both tip and ring of the other plug, sleeve tied to sleeve). This makes an unbalanced connection that feeds the output of the preamp to the soundcard without altering the “normal” path except for the possible impact of tying the grounds of the board and the mixer together (which will occur when you patch it using the auxes anyway).
If you are using the inserts already you can get a mono Y-connector and tap the signal either before or after the effect as you prefer. As I think a little more about it, you can acually use the Y-connector to avoid a custom cable. A normal insert cable has a TRS connector for the insert end with a mono (TR) plug for the send and another mono TR plug for the return. If you plug both into the Y-connector it will conect the send to the return and to the tip of the Y-connector which you would then plug into the soundcard.
The advantage of this is that it puts only the preamp and trim in the circuit and eliminates the possibility of an unnoticed connection to the aux bus. It also means that your simultaneous channel count is limited by the number of inserts and soundcard inputs rather than by the number of aux channels. While not all boards have inserts, those that do usually have more inserts than aux channels so you typically can get more channels this way.
Jim
The noise indeed came from using the aux sends out of the board into the Delta 44. Thank you for all of your help and suggestions.
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| The noise indeed came from using the aux sends out of the board into the Delta 44. Thank you for all of your help and suggestions. |
Glad you got it sorted.
Actually I get weird noises in my songs… but that’s just my singing…