What mixer to buy?

best bang for the buck

I am looking for a high quality mixer for use with a Delta 1010 LT.
My Behringer 1002 only has 2 outputs.
I think what I need is a mixer or preamp with about 16 channels in and out. I am on a buget so my price range is under 400.00
What brand is best?
I have heard good things about Behringer but I have also heard they are cheap junk. My Behringer seems to work great and very clean sound.
Shopping and reading all the specs makes my head spin and as a drummer most of the info means nothing to me.
Sugestions?

I am now firmly convinced that the berry stuff sounds like cardboard compared to what yuo can get if you work at it a little. For example, you could get some of those little Bellari mp105 thigns - they are tube preamps that run at real plate voltages and can be had for about 50 bucks each on ebay, and if you swap out the tube that’s in there for a good one you will get a great tube sound. You could sort of follow that path and get a number of different pres, e.g., get one of the seventh circle kits or the like for a solid state transformer pre. That might be too much money for you, I dunno. If you are into just a bit of soldering, I have another idea, PM me. :)

For a good bang for the buck, I would look to the Yamaha MG series or some of the Soundcraft stuff. For whatever reason, these guys are often over looked, but they make great products in the price range between Berry’s super cheap and Mackie’s premium. Maybe used Mackie on eBay? I have real mixed feelings about Berry. They may work fine for non-critical knock around stuff, but for long term workhorse use, I think you might want to look else where. I have a little Berry mixer I use on stage as a headphone preamp, but I don’t think I would go Berry for much else. I personally would rather save my cash another few weeks/months and get something that will last than get something quick and cheap.

Recently i asked the same at audiominds. Most of guys recommend me the Yammie instead of the Berry ones. Finnally purchased this one:

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/mixer/a_mixer/mg_series/mg10_2/

The price is similar. There is also a 8/2 version with built-in FX.
I like it.

Soundcraft have a similar one (notepad spirit) with a turntable option in the input, but it dont have peakmeters (only a little led)


EDIT: Hey, Tom! this thing looks nice! What voltage works the phantom?

Alto, if you can find it. Looks like better constructed berry gear.

My band uses the Yamaha MG10/2 to mix our vocals and send them to the monitor amp, and it is a sweet unit. I also have one of the Soundcraft Spirit Notepads here in the home studio, and it is the equal or better of the Yammie in every way except for the metering. The turntable option is nice, though not very necessary of you aren’t a DJ. But the mic pres are the big difference. The Yamaha’s are very clean, but not terribly warm. The Notepad’s pres are equally clean, but much warmer, and I think the eq is voiced better, especially for vocals. But the Folio is more expensive, by $30 to 50(US), I think…

But they are both great, and either one is an improvement, sonically speaking, over my berry mixer, which has very grainy sounding pres, although the berry has held up for almost 5 years of use without a problem - but then, the Folio is a year or so older, and still going strong too! :laugh:

'til next time;
Tony W

LOL…
I guess everyone has an opinion about berri stuff:

My experience has been this:
I own a berri PA head with a 10 line mixer and some effects (which I never use) and have never had a problem,
and I also own a berri 32x8 desk which is fantastic.

Basically if it works 2 months after you buy it, you’re likely never to have a problem. Or it breaks the first week out of the box and is covered under their warranty.

It is all mostly cheaper knock offs of proven designs (so some more “pro” typse tend to be a bit snobish, but the difference in cost is so staggering, I believe it can’t be ignored.

I am shocked to see Mackie listed by someone as premium…I think they actually sound worse than the berri stuff…preamps are buzzy and the built in effects on the CFX20 clip so easily they are unusable.

Best bet is to find a retailer you trust and can work with, and try different stuff until you are happy.

BTW the quality levels on the differen models in the berri line are all over the road, so don’t buy until you’ve laid you hands on it…some of their stuff really is trash.

MTC,
Jimi

Basically if it works 2 months after you buy it, you're likely never to have a problem

Hi Jimy. What you said has sense in the circuit/electronic side of the hardware. But mixers also have a mechanical side that is able to go bad because use. Knobs, sliders, inputs, etc. If they are not good quality made, after use them a little intensively you can have some problems. Knobs become unnacurate, or noisy, inputs can fail to do good contact, etc.
:;):
Right on re: the mech side, but the trick is to actually care for them...ie. covered when not in use, no smoking, don't spill beer in etc.

actually I bought mine at the Guitar Center here and for approx $599 I got a 32x4x2 mixing board with a 5 year replacement warranty which covers abuse!!!

I could spill a beer into the thing and they will give me a new one...was a hard deal to pass up.

IMHO Berri gets a bad rap because of all the lawsuit issues with Mackie and Soundcraft. In a perfect world we would all buy something along the lines of an Allen & Heath, but this fellow is on a tight budget. Sometimes great is the enemy of good, and in the end most of us are not able to purchase top of the line because this is not our primary line of work. I am only suggesting not ruling out the berri line out of hand. My experience is that if one is careful in selecting the piece, these guys make decent stuff at a great price.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND GET SOME HANDS ON TIME WITH THE PIECE YOU WANT



:;):

Behringer MX3242X at zzsounds

16/32 channel inline mixer (16 mic/line + 16 tape return)

Prices here in Australia are a little inflated. I got mine for around $780 US (much lower than RRP) but as you can see on zzsounds a lot cheaper there under $500.

Lots of functionality for the price.

I’ve set up bigger Allen & Heaths at live shows and the faders feel a little cheap compared to them but that’s the difference between a $500 desk and a $10000 desk.

I still say that it is not so much the functionality that matters but the quality of the preamps. 400 dollars US is a lot of money to spend on something that will get the job done, but will lock one into a sub par sound. Cheap preamps - that’s why so many of us make good but not pro sounding recordings. If it matters to us we ought to find ways to get as good a signal chain as we can. I’m with Jimisin, do a lot of comparison shopping, although I think in the end the shortcomings of berry preamps will be so apparent that buying one will seem like wasted money.

IMHO.

Quote (TomS @ Mar. 14 2005,22:55)
I still say that it is not so much the functionality that matters but the quality of the preamps.

Not doubting this at all. Just presenting options for him to investigate. What will suit his needs won't suit the next guy.

We can't all go out and buy vintage Neve pres now can we.

my 2 bob.

no, we can’t all buy vintage Neve (well, I certainly can’t, and remain married) and that is not what Tom is refering to…He’s an ol’ dumpster diver from way back :)…Do your homework and don’t be afraid of the soldering iron…you can have WORLD class pre’s (class A, discrete)with a little effort and little $$…Note to the wise: ic chip based stuff is junk regardless of the manufacturer. Mackie, Berry , whatever…I have a Mackie 1402…GREAT little live board but very mediocre under the studio microscope…Mics are important but pre’s are the biggest factor for quality (as long as you have a decent instrument to record!) and “mixibility” of tracks.
I made Tom aware of a few things and now he is a big believer (and he was somewhat of a “pre skeptic”)…and, his stuff sounded good before…look out!

Ray

Quote (nergle @ Mar. 13 2005,12:29)
(Those who are old enough will recall the "Magic Eye" level thingy on old tape machines. Lovely things, much faster in response than a VU meter or even a professional PPM).

Ali

HAR! I guess I'm showing my age! Geez, I haven't thought of those things in YEARS!

"Magic Eye" indeed!

TG
Quote (gtr4him @ Mar. 14 2005,13:54)
Quote (nergle @ Mar. 13 2005,12:29)
(Those who are old enough will recall the "Magic Eye" level thingy on old tape machines. Lovely things, much faster in response than a VU meter or even a professional PPM).

Ali

HAR! I guess I'm showing my age! Geez, I haven't thought of those things in YEARS!

"Magic Eye" indeed!

TG

I've got one of those old Webcors that has a magic eye - makes a very nice tube pre - ask hux. 25 bucks on ebay. Tubes that run at 100s of volts. mmm...

Was I a skeptic, Ray? My new mantra:

all IC based pres are junk, all IC based pres are junk... :D

In Lurking Mode… ??? :O

lol…

Quote (Jimisin73 @ Mar. 13 2005,14:28)
I am shocked to see Mackie listed by someone as premium...I think they actually sound worse than the berri stuff...preamps are buzzy and the built in effects on the CFX20 clip so easily they are unusable.

Premium price is what I meant. Kinda like a Cadillac. You'll pay a lot more for it.... but my Honda will run longer. :) You do indeed pay a premium for Mackie stuff... As for the sound and quality... well, you guys can hash that out. As with any gear, and has been said 100 times already in this thread... get your hands on some stuff and find what you like. Brand names be damned.
Quote (Willy @ Mar. 12 2005,20:01)
Alto, if you can find it. Looks like better constructed berry gear.

Is it just me or does the likes of Berry, Alto, Phonic etc... look like they came out of the same factory? They are certainly in the same price range and some models look ALMOST identical. Makes you wonder....... ???

TG