BE FORWARNED! If you don’t like reading a post that discusses the faults of N-Track then you shouldn’t read any further…
I bought N somewhere around 4 years ago. Thought it was really cool (even with the crashes and bugs that were present in each upgrade that I paid for).
I finally got tired of the hassles and bought a Digi001 and Protools for $125 off Craigslist somewhere around a year and a half ago. Wow, what a difference. No crashes, no bugs, no problems whatsoever. A world of a difference. I should have taken all the money I spent on the “new and improved” versions of N and brought Protools years ago. Would’ve saved myself, literally, hundreds of dollars and countless hours of frustration.
Anyway, there’s one software program that I’ve got that’s not Mac compatible and I still need to run on N. Haven’t been recording much lately so I guess I shouldn’t be suprised that when I tried to use N for my drum prog it took a big ****. Right after I’d spent 3 effin hours getting the drums right. N sucks. It’s Flav’s little hobby that he’s making hundreds of thousands off of. He know’s it got flaws, hell, he programs them in. Just so he can send out a “new version” and make thousands more off of it.
I’ve had it. Jamstix is a great program for drums. I’ll just find something else that can generate my drum tracks and then transport them to PROTOOLS. If you’re serious about your music and don’t have a shitload of money to spend you’ll dump N too. It’s a bottomless money pit that will never work “quite right”. I mean really, how many years has it been round and Flav is still wanting money for “new updates and versions”? Open your eyes up people, he’s in it just for the money, and the money he want’s is yours.
Anyway, enough of my ranting.
Ciao
gunner
p.s. I’m sure Flav will delete this post as soon as he sees it, so if you want to discuss this further my email is jwa70@hotmail.com
gunner - I seriously doubt that any of the personal stuff you wrote regarding Flavio’s motives is true.
I do know however that n is just not quite there yet in stability for some users/systems. I doubt if that’s by design.
gunner - I seriously doubt that any of the personal stuff you wrote regarding Flavio's motives is true.
I would agree. That is about the most backwards way to gain customers and repeat business. Look at all the threads of those of us who have bailed.
But Protools, really? I mean, c'mon, really? Protools? Sigh. What, you gonna start using a Mac now too? Well, whatever works.
It's Flav's little hobby that he's making hundreds of thousands off of.
I seriously doubt it at $64 a pop.
Yes, it has it's faults, it can be really frustrating but suggesting it is deliberate is a bit strong.
I've been on N since version 4 and think it's cost about $100 total which for me is good value given the amount of recording we've done, but if you're happy with ProTools, good luck.
It takes all sorts...
I believe that Gunner’s post may have been a bit harsh, but it definitely contains a bit of truth and is not without merit. Though I doubt that Flavio has intentionally made the decision to write and distribute a challenging ( some might say defective??? ) and frustrating product, the fact that he continually does make the concious decision to add many new features etc. while ignoring the requests from paying customers to stabalize the product and fix the continuing problems could lead one to the conclusion that what Gunner has described is true from one specific point of view. What were those “Rush” Lyrics "If you choose not to decide (or act ans may be the case with Flavio) you still have made a choice."
I like Gunner bought N-track several years ago and have paid for upgrades etc, only to become more frustrated as time went by. Not so much because there were bugs present, but more based on the conclusion that they would probably never be fixed after all the money had been spent and time invested. I would think a more telling tale than the few folks who complain here is the number that no longer come to this forum to chat. Though it may be only perception, it seems to me this forum used to be quite a bit busier than it is today, with topics that were more productive than rants about a problematic product. It does deeply sadden me, but the cries of the tired and weary seem to fall on deaf ears.
It does deeply sadden me, but the cries of the tired and weary seem to fall on deaf ears.
Who talks like that?
I had no idea that the church lady was using N
What were those "Rush" Lyrics "If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice."
"Free Will" - Permanent Waves (1980 or there 'bouts)
D - confirmed RUSH head...
I would agree. That is about the most backwards way to gain customers and repeat business. Look at all the threads of those of us who have bailed
Could you please explain to me why offering payed upgrades is a backwards way of doing business?
I don't work on n-Track hoping to get rich, as Gunner suggested, but it is my way of making a living and I can't see the reason why upgrades should be free.
Offering free upgrades may be perfectly fine practice, but I believe that offering upgrades for a fee is just as respectable. Most major companies do the same thing. Nobody I think is complaining that Adobe charges an upgrade for users to switch from a version of Photoshop to the next.
A major new release of n-Track comes out every approximately two years, and the upgrade price is $34. Paying $34 every two years doesn't really seem much to me. People are used to the fact that most of the things on the internet are free and have similar expectations for software. It's perferctly fine that there are people willing to work on free sofware without being payed. I don't know well who these people are but they often produce very
good products such as in the case of Firefox, Apache or other free software.
n-Track is not and has never been a free product, I don't work on it on my spare time and I can assure you that working on fixing bugs, responding to users emails complaining about problems or complaining about lost registration codes to be re-sent or similar stuff is not fun at all.
I won't even argue about willing adding bugs to the program. What could be argued is that some bugs are left in the latest version of a N.x release and from the time that N+1.0 is released some bugs remain in version N.x which are never fixed. The fact is however that software is perfect, and continuing to maintain older versions with bugfix releases would have prohibitive costs. The latest versions before a major release are usually quite stable, as I think is the case for v5.1.1, and I am not aware of any major bugs in that version.
I try to listen to users feedback as much as I can, and I've been trying to improve the program stability and reliability. If you look closely you'll see that version 6.0 has not a very high number of new features compared to v5.x, but I believe that is the most stable version of the program so far, and I've invested a considerable amount of time in developing automated tests to make it less likely that new versions of the program introduce bugs or reintroduce previously fixed ones.
What people often don't realize is that developing a product such as n-Track is difficult. Programming is fun and easy if you do it in your spare time, but when programs get big things get messy. The fact that the audio recording software market is a relatively niche and highly competitive market doesn't make things easier.
I work on n-Track because it's interesting and challenging, but it hasn't been my hobby since about 1997 or so. I'm sorry if the program doesn't yet meet some users standards of quality or reliability, and I look forward to working on making the program better. It would be immensely more useful if the user community could focus more on helping in making the program better instead of purposelessly painting gloomy pictures of instability or missing features.
I whish Gunner would just write about the bugs themselves or about features that he'd like to be implemented.
Flavio.
Just a quick pat on the back for Flavio.
I’ve been an N-tracker since version 3.something.
Admittedly, I don’t use a lot of MIDI:
just recording keyboard, guitar, and vocal tracks – but N-track has always worked well for me, and version 6.whatever is great.
I probably never would have started recording if it hadn’t been for the low cost of starting up that N-track enabled;
of course, what I’ve paid for hardware since then is another issue
Keep up the good work, Flavio, and don’t let the complainers get you down!
I was agreeing with Poppa. What I am saying is it would be completely backwards of you to sell something “broken” and then “trick” folks into upgrades. I was defending you as the original poster was implying you had some sort of unfair scheme to what you were doing and I know that simply isn’t true. I am on your side on this one.
However, as for the gloomy picture, right or wrong, many of us feel abandoned as there are outstanding bugs that seem to never get fixed (the delay compensation for instance). We feel we have been left high and dry. Especially considering your relative seeming absence on the forum. I must applaud you for your post as I think this sort of dialog is what is going to be the most beneficial for N in general. What I would recommend, as this has been successful in other forums, is to create a bug report forum. That way everyone can see your involvement, everyone can see what has been reported, and everyone can see what the status of a bug is. Just be prepared to be held to a very high standard. I think working one on one with someone bugs is a losing battle as the community can offer so much more. With this sort of thing, I am sure many of us are very happy to contribute. I don’t mean to be negative at all in light of your recent post. If you want to make the software better, consider my suggestion as I think it will help things a lot both in perception and in real results.
Thumbs up on the bug report forum suggestion…
I was agreeing with Poppa. What I am saying is it would be completely backwards of you to sell something "broken" and then "trick" folks into upgrades. I was defending you as the original poster was implying you had some sort of unfair scheme to what you were doing and I know that simply isn't true. I am on your side on this one.
However, as for the gloomy picture, right or wrong, many of us feel abandoned as there are outstanding bugs that seem to never get fixed (the delay compensation for instance). We feel we have been left high and dry. Especially considering your relative seeming absence on the forum. I must applaud you for your post as I think this sort of dialog is what is going to be the most beneficial for N in general. What I would recommend, as this has been successful in other forums, is to create a bug report forum. That way everyone can see your involvement, everyone can see what has been reported, and everyone can see what the status of a bug is. Just be prepared to be held to a very high standard. I think working one on one with someone bugs is a losing battle as the community can offer so much more. With this sort of thing, I am sure many of us are very happy to contribute. I don't mean to be negative at all in light of your recent post. If you want to make the software better, consider my suggestion as I think it will help things a lot both in perception and in real results.
Yeah that ^^^! I promise I would be much less "dubious"!
Thanks,
D
I can imagine it’s rather frustrating to be working hard on something and having to deal with all you have to Flavio - but a bug report forum for the new version would allow you to keep up with the more current problems I would think. Those of use who have moved on to ver 6 would rather have you focused on it than having to bother with ver X issues etc…
Enough is enough -
Please re-direct your ‘frustation factor’ back to some
positive contructive (maybe even interesting) input.
We all know ad-nauseum how you feel. For the last 1-1/2 months.
Please re-join the community in a more positive spirit.
You all have plenty of interesting things to add here, but
I feel you have lost all perspective. If you have gripes and
issues, discuss it with Flavio first. If he can not accomodate you,
then there are usually plenty of alternatives to accomplish
whatever it is you may be trying to accomplish. You are trying
to accomplish something aren’t you?
If you are that good - then you probably should be using Pro-Tools,
or Logic. But you gotta pay. It’s that simple.
I miss the ‘old forum’
I miss the 'old forum'
Amen to that one Seven
I miss the 'old forum'
With all respect feller's... and sincerely NOT trying to initiate any more controversy, the forum has changed, evolved, devolved or whatever you want to call it because the software is represents has done the same. Isn't that reasonable logic?
D
I was agreeing with Poppa. What I am saying is it would be completely backwards of you to sell something "broken" and then "trick" folks into upgrades. I was defending you as the original poster was implying you had some sort of unfair scheme to what you were doing and I know that simply isn't true. I am on your side on this one.
However, as for the gloomy picture, right or wrong, many of us feel abandoned as there are outstanding bugs that seem to never get fixed (the delay compensation for instance). We feel we have been left high and dry. Especially considering your relative seeming absence on the forum. I must applaud you for your post as I think this sort of dialog is what is going to be the most beneficial for N in general. What I would recommend, as this has been successful in other forums, is to create a bug report forum. That way everyone can see your involvement, everyone can see what has been reported, and everyone can see what the status of a bug is. Just be prepared to be held to a very high standard. I think working one on one with someone bugs is a losing battle as the community can offer so much more. With this sort of thing, I am sure many of us are very happy to contribute. I don't mean to be negative at all in light of your recent post. If you want to make the software better, consider my suggestion as I think it will help things a lot both in perception and in real results.
Bubba, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you, I think I have misunderstood your post, I was just replying to the general tone of gunner and other similar posts that have appeared lately.
As far as I know the plugins latency compensation problem is fixed in the latest builds of v6.0. I still wasn't able to reproduce the problem with a 5-10 second delay starting the playback that two users have reported when plugins latency compensation is active. It doesn't seem to happen on most installations.
Perhaps more than (or alongside) a bugs-only forum a bug tracking system could be more to the point. Tomorrow I'll install one such system (probably Bugzilla) on the server so that people will be able to check the status of current or fixed bugs.
Flavio.
I hear what your saying D!
But I’m only talking a few weeks ago
There’s just so much negativity around lately. Anyway, c’est la vie, these things tend to come around.
Tomorrow I'll install one such system (probably Bugzilla) on the server so that people will be able to check the status of current or fixed bugs.
THAT sounds like an excellent step in the right direction sir!
Thanks!
D