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| What more do you expect?? |
As much as I detest getting involved in these interminable debates, nonetheless, I detest reading bollocks even more.
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| Cheney clearly expressed a personal opinion |
Pancho has it right (good one Pancho)! Cheney is the VP - his opinion, his views or whatever you want to call it, is important & means something, especially when he is being interviewed. Cheney knows he’s wrong, he even looked alittle uncomfortable in the interview, but he’s a master a deceit & spin.
My better judgement tells me it’s not worth discussing this with ksdb, so I won’t. Tim Russert is one of the best - shame on you for what you say.
Like phoo, I expect politicians to ultimately be honest. And I do try to back up what I say with facts. I also will admit when I get the facts wrong.
Cheny & Rumsfeld were presenting a false picture about the war since day one. Cheney has finally admitted that Iraq & 9/11 are not connected, athough he still makes the false claim that Al Qaeda had some ties to Saddam, even though everyone else says they didn’t. Cheney still spreads the false fact about Atta meeting with an Iraqi. He still spreads the lie about Al Zarquawi in Iraq, etc., etc.
The other thing that really pisses me off with Bush is a few years ago, he didn’t care where bin Laden was, nor did he think about him much (Bush stated this publically). But all of a sudden, on the 5 year anniversary of 9/11, he’s concerned again:
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| If we yield Iraq to men like bin Laden," Bush said, "our enemies will be emboldened, they will gain a new safe haven, and they will use Iraq’s resources to fuel their extremist movement. We will not allow this to happen." |
| Quote (Guest @ Sep. 12 2006,15:45) | ||
| As much as I detest getting involved in these interminable debates, nonetheless, I detest reading bollocks even more. <!–QuoteBegin>
And that is the bollocks in question. No, he was expressing the opinion of the Vice President of the United States of America. Or is that only a part time job?
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If your read my post again ksdb, you’ll see I was not questioning Mr Cheney’s psychic abilities or the lack thereof; rather I was questioning your use of the phrase ‘personal opinion’.
I have noticed that I have a tendency to chime into these type of conversations from a side angle. Please excuse the subsequent rant.
I watched Bush the other day on TV talking about 9/11 victims and why we need to continue in Iraq. Once again, he is pushing the idea that the two were connected in some way. And by doing so, he politicizes the innocent lives lost on that tragic day by using them as a scape goat for his own failed and poorly conceived policies. His lack of respect for those people is obscene and frankly makes me ill.
As far as Cheney’s comment about it not being a bloody and costly war until we ran into trouble is a babyish remark at best and unbefitting the Vice President. It is the job of the leaders of the country to be prepared for all possible contingencies. And it was made very clear by many top government officals "including many Generals and Powell himself) that this was not going to be easy. So the fact that Cheney was questioned about his moronic earlier statement was fair and justified. He can pretend all he wants to play stupid now to cover for a blatant lie from the past.
(You got to love ksdb’s comment that Cheney was not a psychic. It is a typical ruse used by people who do not want to take responsibility for their wrong doings. No one asked Cheney to be a psychic. He is just being asked to be minimally competent and honest. His response proves him to be neither.)
$.02 more,
Mike
| Quote (Guest @ Sep. 12 2006,18:52) |
| If your read my post again ksdb, you'll see I was not questioning Mr Cheney's psychic abilities or the lack thereof; rather I was questioning your use of the phrase 'personal opinion'. |
| Quote (DrGuitar @ Sep. 12 2006,19:23) |
| I have noticed that I have a tendency to chime into these type of conversations from a side angle. Please excuse the subsequent rant. I watched Bush the other day on TV talking about 9/11 victims and why we need to continue in Iraq. Once again, he is pushing the idea that the two were connected in some way. And by doing so, he politicizes the innocent lives lost on that tragic day by using them as a scape goat for his own failed and poorly conceived policies. His lack of respect for those people is obscene and frankly makes me ill. As far as Cheney’s comment about it not being a bloody and costly war until we ran into trouble is a babyish remark at best and unbefitting the Vice President. It is the job of the leaders of the country to be prepared for all possible contingencies. And it was made very clear by many top government officals "including many Generals and Powell himself) that this was not going to be easy. So the fact that Cheney was questioned about his moronic earlier statement was fair and justified. He can pretend all he wants to play stupid now to cover for a blatant lie from the past. (You got to love ksdb’s comment that Cheney was not a psychic. It is a typical ruse used by people who do not want to take responsibility for their wrong doings. No one asked Cheney to be a psychic. He is just being asked to be minimally competent and honest. His response proves him to be neither.) $.02 more, Mike |
Again ksdb, you are not addressing the issue posed. Of course I didn’t really expect you to. Instead you have side stepped and made the issue whether Cheney should have been “pessimistic or optimistic” which has nothing to do with telling the truth.
I will reframe my point an a way that you may understand. Lets say you walk into a used car dealer looking to buy a good working vehicle. You spot a few vehicles that you believe will do the job when along comes the vice president of the dealership and he says he has the car for you. He take you to the back of the lot and shows you a vehicle that looks like it may have some problems. He assures you that it is sound and will provide you with lasting transportation. As you are paying for the vehicle, you notice that some of the VPs underlings are shaking their heads at you. Again concerned, you ask the Vice President about the vehicle. He reassures you that the vehicle will provide lasting value.
For the first 2 weeks, the vehicle runs good and you feel like things may be ok. Then things start to go wrong. Funny rattling noises start to pop up everywhere. The steering starts to pull hard toward incoming traffic. When you turn corners, the front wheels vibrate violently. This used vehicle had no warranty so you take the vehicle into a local shop and try again and again to get it fixed. Each time it costs you more and more money just to keep it on the road. Many months later, it becomes apparent that you were sold a lemon.
You return to the Vice President and question him about his sales practice. YOu remind him that he said the vehicle would be “sound” and “of lasting value”. He replies that the car was sound when it left the lot and that it had lasting value lasting 2 weeks. He can’t be held responsible for anything that happens past that.
As you walk out of the car dealership, you are reminded how slimy this Vice President is and vow to tell others about him so that they may be spared the deceit.
Keep in mind that in the story above, only the money for a single car was lost. In Dick Cheney’s lies, lives are lost every day. Thousands so far. Cheney makes the slimy dealer look like saint. 
Mike
DrG, this has to be the most ridiculous and inane analogy ever written. Let go of the insanely bitter, partisan hatred and deal with reality. We were presented in this thread with two very brief comments where Cheney was specifically asked for an OPINION. The only dishonesty is on the part of any of you folks on the left pretending like you would have believed him to begin with. If you think he lied, then prove he didn’t believe in what he said.
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| DrG, this has to be the most ridiculous and inane analogy ever written. |
Highlights below for the cognitively challenged (maybe some of you could understand this if it were in musical notation and the others just need to stop wearing your buttocks in place of a shirt collar).
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| VICE PRES. CHENEY: Now, I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is, we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. MR. RUSSERT: If your analysis is not correct, and we’re not treated as liberators, but as conquerors, and the Iraqis begin to resist, particularly in Baghdad, do you think the American people are prepared for a long, costly and bloody battle with a—significant American casualties? VICE PRES. CHENEY: Well, I don’t, I don’t think it’s likely to unfold that way, Tim, because I really do believe we will be greeted as liberators. |
It’s you whose is “cognitively challenged”. Cheney is the VP - his opinion or his belief matters. Following your logic, everything Cheney says in an interview is just an opinion and therefore should never been held accountable for it.
This thread has gotten of my main point which how Cheney weazeled out of Russet’s question:
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| You, you gave me a choice, Tim, “Will you be greeted as occupiers or liberators?” and I said we’ll be greeted as liberators. And we were. |
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| Freedom’s untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. They’re also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that’s what’s going to happen here…Stuff happens. |
| Quote (Mr Soul @ Sep. 13 2006,13:14) |
| It’s you whose is “cognitively challenged”. Cheney is the VP - his opinion or his belief matters. Following your logic, everything Cheney says in an interview is just an opinion and therefore should never been held accountable for it. |
| Quote (Mr Soul @ Sep. 13 2006,13:14) | ||
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This thread has gotten of my main point which how Cheney weazeled out of Russet’s question: <!–QuoteBegin>
This is a diversionary tactic. No politian limits themselves to the choices that a reporter gives them. That’s a crock if I’ve ever heard one. |
| Quote (Mr Soul @ Sep. 13 2006,13:14) |
| The fact is that Cheney & the admin did paint an overly rosey picture of the war in Iraq from the beginning. And to say that we were treated like liberators in only beginning is bullsh*t, because you can’t separate the beginning from the middle or the end of a military operation. |
| Quote (Mr Soul @ Sep. 13 2006,13:14) |
| The issue is that the admin should have anticipated what was to come and planned for it. But instead, they did the opposite by not putting enough troops in Iraq, etc., etc. |
Blah, blah, blah. As I said, the interview was full of Cheney-speak & I just picked one item which I thought was illustrative of how Cheney’s talks through the side of his mouth.
Like you do with me, I’m not going to address everyone of your points. But I’ll talk about the most important one:
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| Nonsense again. The original objective was achieved. |
| Quote (Mr Soul @ Sep. 13 2006,13:49) |
| Blah, blah, blah. As I said, the interview was full of Cheney-speak & I just picked one item which I thought was illustrative of how Cheney's talks through the side of his mouth. Like you do with me, I'm not going to address everyone of your points. But I'll talk about the most important one: Nonsense again. The original objective was achieved. |
Since when did “Mission Accomplished” mean Saddam was caught? The timeline doesn’t fit. Joe, it was seven and a half months between Mission Accomplished and capturing Saddam.
Mission Accomplished - May 1, 2003
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Accomplished
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/28/mission.accomplished/
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| During the speech in May, Bush said, “The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September 11, 2001, and still goes on.” |
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| The timeline doesn’t fit. Joe, it was seven and a half months between Mission Accomplished and capturing Saddam. |
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| There’s no question that the mission to remove Saddam was accomplished. |
| Quote (phoo @ Sep. 13 2006,16:42) |
| Gettysburg Address |