Zero vu

Does anyone have a formula for obtaining the same volume level for all there mastered songs.
One can squeeze a file to make it look like a strip of bacon of course no levells above 0vu.
But that will be one loud master, compared to one set a 0vu with out the compression.

TomS mentioned my kingb mix and I’ve used that as a bench mark but it’s loud.
Clear but loud.
Any thoughts?

I’ll go first.
Stoping short of mastering.
I’m guessing;
mixdown all your songs to a little under 0vu with no compression on the master channel.

It’s best to master all your tracks in the same phase of your project?
So you have your collection of songs all mixed down to stereo tracks. In my case at various volumes but all under 0vu. All the peak volumes are at approx -.04 db ok?

Digital summing of course and using nTrack exclusively.

I found an interesting conversation on a greatsluts forum that has given me inspiration and new ideas.

For a studio software site there is very little studio technique chatter around here ??? But I’m finding things by looking elsewhere. Want to keep y’all tuned in if you care to be. I found CHIRO is pretty much at the same level and asking the same questions as me. Here he asks about eqing a mix and using plugins and getting some great replys :agree:

this guy hit the ball out of the park with this post
I don’t see why everyone is getting so up it about boosting or cutting. There is, in reality, no such thing.

Boost 220 by 10dB, or cut everything apart from 220 by 10dB, and turn the fader up 10dB, same result. Yet one was cutting, one was boosting, right?

See what I’m getting at? EQ something in Logic’s EQ then play with the master gain control and watch the graph on the right.

Bring the master down by the same amount as the highest boost on any frequency, and you will essentially have cut everything else, but by varying amounts. This does leave more options on the fader front and it is good practice not to let your EQ increase the track’s overall level.

The problem is a leftover from the analog world where boosting also boosted noise and cutting cut noise. The rule of thumber from that over simplified idea is that boosting is bad and cutting is good.

In digital the rules change but old ideas stick around. They aren’t bad or wrong but different.

In digital, there is no need to worry about cut or boost or level until the extremes are getting near beacause there is no fight with anlog noise, such as tape hiss and induced hum in the digital stream. Those problems are stricly analog. Digital has its own set of quirks, like aliasing, the horrible noise noise of going over 0db (this may be the worst problem of all), and the gravel sound when at the noise floor. Anything in the middle stays pure with digital.

Aaa good point.
We are hearing arguments based on two different mindsets.
I’m beginning to believe ones approach is a main ingredient.
A lot of us simply hookup to capture a new idea recording quickly to preserve the feel and idea and keeping that track because of it’s raw instinctiveness,“feel”.
Which is always very unique and powerful.
But in some ways we are setting ourselves up for noise issues.
Guitars out of tune, incorrect amp tonal adjustments, excessive effect etc.
I’ve always loved first takes for that energy but first takes can come out of the trashcan.
I mean for some ideas I’ve found I’m literally scurrying to hook up while I try to remember the riff and feel before I forget it or I’m distracted and my mood changes.
I suppose that’s what separates the novices like me from the pros who take the time to master the new riff before they record.
The only way to correct that would be to stay on top of ones tunning and settings on a daily basis.
There again, pros who afford the time, and novices who squeeze music into their schedule’s.

Aliasing can for the most part be controlled using a higher sample frequency and or anti aliasing filters?

One guy mentioned using a high medium boost to sweep with, enabling you to immediately hear where the bad sounds are located.
And then focusing your attention to those areas to start with.
I can see were this could help and I’ve heard those extremes, maybe if the shape is to wide;
not good practice but to thin can’t be that good either.

I use “T’Racks 3 Classics” plus the Linear phase eq, clipper and limiter.
The T’Racks Classic and the Linear phase eq, clipper, and limiter are all placed in the T’Rack control module allowing you to add them separately to the chain.
The module includes a spectrum analyzer and meters.
If my sound is good, the spectrum analyzer shows all the peaks in the right places, the rms and level meters all looking ok.
Then my volume worries are for not?
Yea I’ve got a ton of questions.
See T’Racks, I love this stuff!
You can demo with no restrictions, that’s what hooked me.
Found under Products/mix and master

I’m only just begining to get my head round digital eq. The subject is huge and ‘subjective’.
I’m glad you guys can sift through it all and post it up in easy bites.

Yep it’s very useful information.
One thing is obvious, everyone seems to struggles with it at first.
I’m developing instincts that I use to react to tones I hear that I don’t like. I’m goin after them fast as if I know what I’m doing.
Simple enough; lows, mids and highs when they seem out of place.

I only hope I’m not developing bad habits in the process. Well see.

Hi Levi and Everyone:

I can remember seeing the T-Racks software being around for as long as had a computer with a dial-up modem…
It’s gotta be be from the early-to-mid '90’s…
Back then I could never get their applications to work very well with the computers I had… More to-do with the computers, I had, back then… I can only think…
In my opinion, this stuff has come a long way as it appeared back then…
Even as I’m using computers that are still outdated, this stuff looks pretty good and shows lots of potential , for what I have, at present…
It appears that this stuff is all “bundled”…
What would the money/lay-out for this stuff set you back????
What’s all your opinions?
Does it do what they claim?


Absolutely do the master as a last step so you can compare mixes side by side. However, as a sort of second opinion, you’ll want to use an RMS meter. I think I remember seeing N now has K system metering. Pop to like K-14. 0db on K14 is -14db RMS which should be a relatively hot master but not be terribly squashed. Of course, use your ears, but it is nice to use RMS meters as a sanity check at times.

Also, there is no 0vu in N track so far as I know. There is 0dbFS on the peak meter, but NOT vu.

Hi Bubba, yep tis a habit of mine to say vu. Thanks for catching my drift and for your input good man! Yes nTrack has those meters as does T’Rack. I appreciate the guide lines, very important. :agree:

Hi Bill, you can buy two different bundles or some singles.
I started with the
Linear Phase Equalizer as a single and love it.
It was 99 dollars.
Then I started looking at other singles and realized that I could crossgrad because I had purchased one of their products.
And got the lesser T’racks 3 ‘classics’ bundle at a reduced price.
I had demo’ed the "delux package which included the “classics” and rememberd likeing the ‘classics’ and went for them when I could afford it.
It took me a few weeks to save up the money for it, six actually…
So it depends on how you go about it.
I hope to crossgrade, (a little like nTracks upgrade for users) up to the premium package some day.
Or maybe pick another off the singles list.

Yes this stuff works great in ntrack.
No sweat on my new computer it gets a little touchy with the smaller comp because it only has 1 & 1/2 gigs of ram.

When using it outside of ntrack with the big comp, brings up an odd issue with the windows 7 volume fader.
But other than that it’s very sweet.
The only thing I noticed that is odd when using it in nTrack if you add the Linear Phase Equalizer to a track while the song is playing that track will become out of time with the rest of the song.
And then when you stop the song and start again it’s back in phase.
It’s powerful stuff!
If you do anything, get ram!

How would you use it outside of ntrack?
Adding a mixdown file into T’Racks for snapshots and processing.
I’m testing doing my mastering exclusively through T’Rs independent of nTrack, I’m getting a little different level control this way.

Opps forgot to give you the link showing the different buy formats.
When the page opens click on the “Mix and Master” link on the left side of the page and that will show the different bundles.

Hi Gents:

Something tells me someone has digitized those Dorrough Meters into a software application… Do a Google on them…
They’ll jump right in your face…
Anyway, I wouldn’t mind having a set of them…
They are probably worth two arms and three legs, by now…
In my opinion, those Meters are something every audio studio should have…
If I had the resources, I’d have a set of the Dorrough analogue meters that I could patch from One I/O to the next, as required…


I hear you very well… Levi…
I’m serious, as well…

I want a Money Crow to fly over my place and St right on my head…
I’ll set my Crow alarm to make sure I don’t miss him…


The only thing I noticed that is odd when using it in n Track if you add the Linear Phase Equalizer to a track while the song is playing that track will become out of time with the rest of the song.
And then when you stop the song and start again it’s back in phase.
It’s powerful stuff!
If you do anything, get ram!


Looking for observations and input, here…

Do you think Computer resources along with Streaming from hard drives and streaming from Ram plays any part in tracks getting out of sync ???? While loading up CPU Usage and all…
It may not matter how hi-end your computer is…
Everything creates Delay…

Ram Speed, Hard Drive Speed…
and All…

I think Flavio has a check box the the prefences to sync Effects Resources in tracks…
I’m not sure if I check that box…
Has anyone played with it?

[EDIT] That Delux Bundle sure looks nice…


From PreSonus:

Because K-System metering takes into account monitor playback levels,
calibration with an SPL meter is required.

This is supposed to be the purrkitten out of the bunch.
I lost phase when adding the Phase Equalizer into ntrac on both computers. I now just stop the song before adding it. Demo it when you have a project ready. Then you have 10 days to complete your project.

Quote: (sevenOfeleven @ Mar. 24 2010, 5:22 PM)


From PreSonus:

Because K-System metering takes into account monitor playback levels,
calibration with an SPL meter is required.

Hi sevenOfeleven:

I have what may be considered the Standard SPL Meter..
It's the Radio Shack Digital one..
I see them in all the Studio and Mixing Rooms I've been around, over the years..
I always have mine within arm's reach.. Every-so-often I'll check the SPL to see that the levels don't creep upwards, when doing a mix session..
Does that help..
It keeps me from waking up the next morning with a big fat headache..