Hi Guys:
I made a suggestion a while back regarding the ability to “Render” Groups as a separate Mix down.
To have this ability would be nice… at lest for me and how I audition groups.
A number of the same group mixes could then be imported into the time-line … Then you would be able to mute the rendered groups and “Solo” the “ONE” that you choose to be the “Keeper” so-to-speak… with the rest of the “Tracks/Groups” on the time-line…
Essentially, what your doing is… Creating a NEW mix of the project you’re working on by “Importing” Rendered Groups into a new time-line and “Remixing” the project you’re working on… by rendering your project by mixing “Groups”… of tracks…
By mixing your project this way… each rendered set of groups will have it’s own “Acoustic Signature”… That is… if you choose to Mix-and-Master your project, that way…
I hope that makes “Sense”… 
Bill…
I am wondering what could be added as well. I have my fingers crossed for the ability to use skins. The new version may explain why we have not had a updated manual in a while.
Well, if 5 ships now, the manual is 2 versions behind.
I cannot see how v4 is gonna get a manual now that v5 is in the pipeline.
having said that, with all the features Flav added over the course of v4 he would have needed a manual ‘addon’ very often…
Maybe v5…
W
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| and in v4 you can add ANY fx to the mixerchannel you want |
As opposed to it being in the insert window?
If Flavio is as smart as I think he is, one of the goals of his new release will be to improve stability, and decrease latency. He does monitor this forum you know. My system (running build 2098) is totally stable while tracking, but does run into some problems (which go all the way back to version 3.1) when editing tracks. I’m expecting he will address these problems. There were fixes/enhancements in many of the last version 4 updates that were very helpful to me. So I will upgrade to version 5.
T
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| I made a suggestion a while back regarding the ability to “Render” Groups as a separate Mix down. To have this ability would be nice… at lest for me and how I audition groups. |
Bill, what you asked for, I think, is already do-able in V4, but not as a specific feature. It’s a matter of freezing the groups and then copying or renaming the freeze files, creating a new song and importing those files into it. That’s how I deal with songs that have lots of tracks.
| Quote (woxnerw @ July 05 2006,09:54) |
| Hi Guys: I made a suggestion a while back regarding the ability to "Render" Groups as a separate Mix down... ...Essentially, what your doing is... Creating a NEW mix of the project you're working on by "Importing" Rendered Groups into a new time-line and "Remixing" the project you're working on.. by rendering your project by mixing "Groups".. of tracks.. By mixing your project this way.. each rendered set of groups will have it's own "Acoustic Signature".. That is.. if you choose to Mix-and-Master your project, that way.. I hope that makes "Sense".. Bill.. |
Hey, everybody!
Bill, are you talking about "stems"? Same thing, in essence? Maybe I should go look it up...
By the way, I suspect a new version is inevitable due to the expected introduction of Windows Vista next year. I think it llikely that many programs will have to be adjusted to cope with the changes, if not for basic performance, at least for optimization.
Whether current users want to upgrade is up to them but new users will eventually demand a Vista compatible version. This may not get serious for a little while since XP and Vista will coexist for a few years but everyone selling programs will need a Vista compatible version soon after its introduction, like it or not.
Jim
I’ll probably pop for V5 IF the upgrade for existing V4.X users is reasonable. I probably won’t pay $75 again though. I’ve been migrating further and further to Cubase or Sonar (LE versions). Mostly for stability reasons but also for additional MIDI editing features. I do love n-Track and have for years. I still recommend it to everybody for getting started. You can go a loooong way with a decent card and n-Track.
D
Hi phoo and Sloom:
Phoo… you are Absolutlly right… I played with a project and did exactlly that… IT could be done in any version/build that had the ability to manufacture groups.
I expermented with a project that had 42-44 tracks, on the time-line… and I rendered the individual tracks from the timeline that represented the groups… IT got real “Mind-Boggeling”… I was jotting down notes to my self on a clip-board then I just threw it all out and moved on to another approach… to the idea. But… if the Groups just appeared in the “Rendering” window…as a normal track appears that would be just what the “Doctor Ordered”… the “Bee’s Knees” so-to-speak…
While Tracking… I work in '98SE as the Desk… While editing and mixing, at times I work with '98SE and XP as the Desk. depending on if I am in the studio or at the machine I like to do editing on…
Getting a proper name-and-date on an .SNG file is important factor to me when I work on projects in and on different DAW’s… that are networked…
There was a build that Flavio posted that had the ability to re-colour/assign Custom Colours to tracks on the time-line and on the "Headers of track mixers… But, IT only worked while I was processing/editing tracks useing '98SE as the Desk… In XP, that feature was not available and couldn’t be seen… That was kind of nifty for me and the set-up I have… I can’t remember the version # or the build… On a later build IT didn’t appear or was removed from appearing on '98SE as the Desk. Haveing that feature available was good … cause it gave me an idea as to how far along the project was in the “Mixing Stage”…
Sloom:
I’m not right on with your “Terminalodegy” Stems…
Can you elaborate on the “Term”?
If we’re moveing on to a new version we may as well get on the same page with each-other and with Flavio as the Boss… we’ll be able to refine the new features As-They-Go…
I really like the ability to configuer the VU Meters to suit the application… as needed… They are “Great”… A little more refinement… and they’ll be just what the Doctor Ordered… Thank-You Flavio… IT happened way back when… I can’t remember the version or the build…
For anyone who is following the World Cup… Italy beat Germany in the 1/4 Final Match… So Flavio will be able to get back to “Codeing”… and feel good about the “WIN”… 
Bill…
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| There was a build that Flavio posted that had the ability to re-colour/assign Custom Colours to tracks on the time-line and on the "Headers of track mixers… But, IT only worked while I was processing/editing tracks useing '98SE as the Desk… In XP, that feature was not available and couldn’t be seen… |
Maybe that’s a limitation of your video card on WinXp, which would surprise me since I think we use the same video card (Matrox Millennium G450 PCI). That functionality is there and always have been. Right click on the track and there “Color” in the pop-up menu, and it’s there in the track properties as well.
Under Preferences > Appearance you can check a box that says “Use new color for each new track” or summat… Is that what you’re looking for Bill? If not, you can always go to the Properties for any track and change the color to whatever your pallette allows.
D
Hi Again Guys:
I have the assign a different colour for each track on the timeline. I have a Matrox G-550 graphics card in the Dual Boot P-4 DAW. Whatever the difference was and IT showed up on the '98SE boot drive. IT was on one of the Bata builds of the 4.1 or 4.2.0 builds. I download and save every build as he posts them.
You’re right phoo… It could have been a limitation on the '98SE desk… Don’t know for sure. And as well, there was another feature on the build… IT all seems so long ago, what with all that has happened to this P-4… with the mainboard failure…
Anyway, I have that DAW just about built now… It’s almost ready to go back to the studio installation… IT’s working pretty good… but I don’t think it’s as good as the asus P4T-E board…
It’s almost a shame to go into the studio and waste all this summer weather… inside… in the dark… Whatever caused that mainboard to fail… is beyond me…
phoo… You mentioned something about the speed/preformance of new computer hardware versus the ability of “OLD” audio hardware to keep up … I haven’t done any tracking with the P-4 rebuild yet… But we’ll see how IT is/goes in a tracking session… My fingers are crossed…
Lexicon is back into the multi-Track audio hardware again… And… they’ve moved from the Boston area to way out in Sandy, Utah… The interface is USB rev.2.0 connection… IT has some pretty good audio specs… but not quite as good as the RME audio hardware… and RME stuff is PCI connected to the DAW… and of course, it’s not priced up there with RME… IT looks almost interesting, though… IT requires two USB ports on their own IRQ assignments… Just looking… but thinking that USB or firewire is not where I shoud be…
Bill…
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| phoo… You mentioned something about the speed/preformance of new computer hardware versus the ability of “OLD” audio hardware to keep up … I haven’t done any tracking with the P-4 rebuild yet… But we’ll see how IT is/goes in a tracking session… My fingers are crossed… |
Yeah, you asked if I knew any specifics a while back and I didn’t respond. I don’t really unfortunately.
Anyway, it’s not so much the hardware can’t keep up. It’s more that the software (drivers and apps) that are for older machines were never tested on faster machines (assuming drivers havenot been updated for WinXp - post Win98 OSes that is), or machines that have technologies like hyper-threading or multi-processing.
The faster and possible parallel processing can expose race conditions that aren’t a problems in slower older machines and on OSes like Win98 and before. Most “hardware” does fine if there are slots in the machine and the bus speed is correct for the hardware (66 mhz verses 100 mhz Front Side Bus Speed (FSB) for example)…or am I confusing busses?
Overclocking can cause similar issues though overclocking can cause other problems as well.
GOOD LUCK!!!
There’s so much to keep into perspective and all when building these DAW’s… The least segnificant issue you might have in their construction… beit hardware software and or configuration can come back and Bite you… BIG Time… before you get IT up-and-running…
IT can be a source of great acomplishment when you hear that Magic track being repro’d… or IT can be one big white elephant on your neck… I’ve had both of them on the same project… with this stuff I have around here… 
Mabey, one day… I’ll learn what IT’s all about… IT can be a source of great frustration… on the creative process…
Bill…
Meh, I have been loyal for a long time to N, but I am finding, as I am in it at least 3 hours a day (6-10 on weekends), N just not cutting it. I do so much VSTi work that I have to have VSTis working consistantly and it is a total crap shoot and I find myself opening Cubase VST that came with my EMU card to salvage things frequently. I am sort of to the point now where I pretty much hate DAWs in general. I just want to record something anymore and all the features just seem to piss me off. I am around here hardly anymore because I am so busy… when I am not at work I am in the studio… so my time is valuable and the “tinker” quotient for me has gotten very low. I just need something that works and is stable. Let’s cross our fingers that that last point is a high priority as I don’t need any of this Mickey Mouse drum machine stuff myself. Real tools like notation editing which we have been asking for forever and stability are my top priorities. Flavio heard us screaming for Freeze (an insanley useful tool) in the past and delivered, so I have hope. Unfortuantely what probably sells copies for Flavio are bells and whistles to dope newbies who want all the toys and don’t really care about getting something done where as old farts like me want stability and tend to buy more expensive packages for that. I personally like Ns work flow better than the rest, so I stick with it. Who knows, maybe Sonar or Samplitude is in my future.
IMO, what would be great is if Flavio figured out a clever way to have a very small parrallel process to the main N process just for catching crashes and exceptions and logging/reporting them . With this, he could have good info to work on stability rather than going off our “Jeez, it worked yesterday and now it is crazy” sort of feedback. I knwo he doesn’t have the means to have a testing lab of every configuration out there, but dare I say he take a lesson from Microsoft and capture the data from crashes.
I am in a boat remotely similar to Bubbagump; I don’t have any tinker-time. Work, home, do some music- which is mostly my going out to some location, meeting three other guys, and making people dance if they come in. So yeah, all the workarounds are a fine idea, as I am one for making a thing work. But I need something to just do the gig, so to speak. So I’ve been into my Tascam 788 and Sonar/Cool Edit Pro.
I still have my n-Track, of course, but haven’t really used it since the last anomaly…
Bill, my loose definition for a “Stem” is a group of tracks- say backing vocals and light percussion in one instance- and doing a mixdown with all pertinent reverbs, etc. You’d do several of these groups/stems on their own, and then bring them into a session and balance them together, and whatever you have to do to make them sit well in the bigger mix.
It’s a way to organize a big project into smaller sub-projects, then you bring them into context together. You have to keep the overall common elements agreeable as you work with each one, though, so that they haven’t become alien to each other by the time you bring them back into the main mix. Know what I mean?
I’m not well versed in it, but I was reading about this on a mastering forum. I don’t have the link! But you might find it through the KVR site. Matter of fact, I’m pretty sure it’s more of a mastering thing than a general mixing technique. So maybe I’ve reached out of the scope here!
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| lavio heard us screaming for Freeze (an insanley useful tool) in the past and delivered, so I have hope |
You know, a few people were asking for a scrub a little while ago, and I found myself wishing for that functionallity too after dismissing it as a gimmick.
But, we all know that Flavio delivers on most things pretty quickly.
I’d just like to see the look change to something less like a toy, or make it skinable at least.
Willy.
Hi Sloom and Bubba and willy and All:
You’ve described a “Stem” perfectlly. I never knew what that was… But I see… Said the man “With No Vision”… Thank you…
I can describe how I treat doing a song/project and treating one of the “Steps” as useing “Stems”.
I invision the “Editor” " (n-Track or any one you use) as haveing the ability to make the construction of your project as easy as Walking and Chewing Gum, at the same time. If you have to think about what or how to use the Editor and forgetting some technical process while your in the “Creative Step” then you’ve lost the “Capture Step” when you are creating that Magic Track…
Each of us has developed our creativity quite differentlly… But in the end IT all comes down to the finished product. To demonstrate to anyone interested in listening to our project that “This is the way IT’s Done”.
IF… how we arrive there… is too hard to do… then we’ll look for another way to IT…
Sense I’ve been useing a computer to compile tracks I’ve only used n-Track to produce the “End Product”. I have no idea how other editors work to complete the end product. I’ve tried a couple of times to use other editors but I found that they got in the way of the Creative Process… I considered going back to “Tape” but there are steps in creating the “End Product” that I can’t do, with tape… as well, the maintenance of working with tape is why I moved away from IT…
So… now I’m pretty much caught up in the “Stuck” mode. I’ve almost forgotten what IT is that I’m trying to do here… I think I’ll know IT when and IF I hear IT again… I hope…
The P-4 (Tracking DAW) that I’m working up is almost ready to put to work… My fingers are crossed… I’m almost frightened to go ahead to start that new project…
For the hardware and set-up I have, I shouldn’t be into P-4’s here… Good working P-111’s is all I think I need…
Bill…
| Quote (Willy @ July 09 2006,01:09) | ||
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You know, a few people were asking for a scrub a little while ago, and I found myself wishing for that functionallity too after dismissing it as a gimmick. But, we all know that Flavio delivers on most things pretty quickly. I’d just like to see the look change to something less like a toy, or make it skinable at least. Willy. |
Skins I don’t care about at all. It is a flowery thing that doesn’t keep the app from crashing, so I can wait for that. But scrub, yeah, that would be handy. As for speed, I know how those things are. I own a company and have 5 programmer on staff. What sounds easy to Mr. Management and Mr. Sales guy doesn’t necessarily mean it is a quick fix for the programmer. You start a prorgam with certain “givens” in mind and design accordingly. If Flavio’s givens 10 years ago never envisioned such funtionailty, it could be a big pain in the butt depending on how things were architected. I would be happy now if it could just not crap out on half the VSTis I use.
I used to be the one to blame the crashes on other’s dopey configs adn crap drivers, but now I am finding on my super clean boxes, stuff takes a crap.