Broadcast Wave Files

Can they be recorded in N-Track?

Can N-Track record broadcast wav files? If so, how do I select that option?

Thanks!

That’s a closely guarded secret because of copyright issues but, since you can record ANYTHING that you hear on your computer, try this…When you have your broadcast wave playing, simply click the RECORD button in n-Track and it should record fine. The length of the recording is only limited by HD space available.

You may have unwanted tails on the new file but they are easily trimmed in n-Track.

HTH

Don :D

Sorry - I should have been more clear. Let me try again:

"Can n-track record .wav files in standard “Broadcast Wave” format? (This is a type of PCM audio file that has imbedded timecode)"

The format is sometimes called “bwf”, but usually has a .wav ending. It’s a common format used in multitrack recording.

I know that n-track can import such files, but can it record directly to that format?

Hi Mr.X and Don:
If I remember and I stand corrected, that request was addressed back in one of the v3.xx versions.

Broadcast wave is an extension that is used by RADAR and a couple of other “Turn-Key” multi-track recorders…

I was gonna report on it’s behaviour back when that extension was added to the list of file extensions was added to the build by Flavio.

RADAR Wayne and I were gonna trade some files and I was going to import (into the setup I have) a project that he was working on with his RADAR unit/setup… However, at that time, I had some hard drive failures and the project never got of the ground.

Then… earlier this spring, I imported some tracks into my set-up from his RADAR setup and used them with no issues here on my set-up. But thay were not written/given to me as .bwf files… They were .wav files… but knowing this, all worked fine… at least on my “End” … they did. I added some tracks to his project here and as far as I know he used them on his RADAR setup. I think there were some technical issues that were discovered on his end, that will be addressed on any later tracking/mixing collaborations.

In answer to your question… I believe Broadcast Wave File, extensions can be recognized and played on a DAW that has n-Track installed on IT…

Bill…

So I would have to assume from what I’ve heard so far that n-track cannot RECORD a BWF file on it’s own.

I used this feature all the time with CuBase when importing tracks to make sure they were all lined up where they originally were put.

Absolutely critical feature, IMHO, and makes n-track pretty much useless to me without it.

Hopefully this is a feature that gets added to v5.

Hi Mr.X:
Again, I stand corrected on this reply…

The manufacture of files and file extensions on a DAW, is an interaction between the Audio Hardware and the ability of the Software-and-DAW to compile the code as IT relates to the Audio Hardware In-and-Out of the Hard Drive… That could be a compilation of data on audio hardware external or internal to the DAW…

Is this idea correct?

n-Track and the DAW just needs to recognize the information and control the transfer of the data (in-and-out) of the Hard Drives, that the Audio Card requires. The Audio Card being the Compiler/Handler of the critical data…

BIG Ideas there… No concrete knowledge… :O ???

That’s what I was gonna delve into when Wayne and I were gonna share and colaborate on a project between the two Platforms-and-Formats…

My understanding is, that Turn-Key Operating Systems are not base’d on MicroSoft and Windows as the compiler of data in-and-out of the hard drives. So, now a “Cross-Platform” of “Code” now becomes nessessary in the transfer and recogition of Data…

In a NutShell… Could that be all that IS Required? ???

Bill…

Sorry, woxnerw, I don’t think you are getting it at all.

Perhaps reading this article will help: http://www.creativemac.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=38586

I’m talking about a very simple concept.
In CuBase, for example, when you are recording from a soundcard input, ANY soundcard input, or importing ANY kind of audio files, you can select the format of the .wav files that CuBase uses for the project to be “Broadcast Wave” files in that they have SMPTE timecode striped inside them.

That’s it - nothing to do with external playback, audio hardware or anything.

Hi Mr.X:
It would be interesting to have Flavio comment on this thread regarding the support of .BWF with-in n-Track… I was overjoyed when Flavio posted a build stating that .BWF files were included as being able to be played/supported on the timeline… I believe IT began on and around build 1516, or so…

However, I never got to import any .bwf files or produce any rendered mixes within n-Track, as the editor…

I read the link you posted on your latest reply… and I am getting IT…

Bill…

Mr X,
Suggestion: Download the free evaluation version and see for youself whether or not N-track supports Broadcast Wave Files. Then maybe let us know your results.
James

I have downloaded the eval. Thought that maybe there was a hidden setting somewhere that I couldn’t find. Since it’s not mentioned in the docs, wiki or forum anywhere, I will assume that the capability does not exist, which is quite surprising.

I guess the next thing will be an e-mail to the author, but I don’t know if he normally replies to such things.

Hi Mr.X and Everyone:
The manual is pretty much out dated… I tried to look for the “History” of builds, but I am/was unable to fine where he posted the ability/support of Broadcast Wave Files.

Flavio does get on this Board when he’s working on something “Current” on producing a build and putting up new featuers and All…

IMHO makeing n-Track a “Cross-Platform” type of Editor is something that Flavio should be activity pursuing… If I could use n-Track to EDIT Tracks-and-Data that were produced useing any of the extensions I think I could become a Busy Audio Person… What with all the “Turn-Key” Hardware stuff that’s out there…

Bill…

This is the first I’ve heard it mentioned here, and I doubt n-Track supports it. However, Flavio tends to be pretty responsive.

Please explain the value of an SMPTE stripe in a wave file. I’ve used SMPTE to sync a MIDI sequencer to tape (back in the bad old days). But I have no similar need using a DAW where MIDI and audio are both supported. I also use MIDI timecode to synch a MIDI synth’s internal sequencer to the DAW, when transferring some old MIDI sequences (the hard way) to n-Track – the synth’s MIDI file format is nonstandard so I can’t just import the files. But no need for SMPTE there.

Now, if you are actually recording something while also recording an SMPTE signal (e.g., from a camera), I could see the value in that – but not embedding the SMPTE stripe in the resulting wave files.

I’m not doubting the value of such a format, I’m just curious about how it’s used and would like a few specific examples. I assume there is a value because it exists.

Thanks
Jeff

Hi Jeff:
What I’ve learned from RADAR Wayne regarding this is… Just some of the first things come to mind.

These RADAR guys like this…

When Transportating tracks from one studio to another they want the tracks showing up on the same “Track Count”… That meaning that if the Snare Track… for example was tracked on say Time line “8”… when the project is transfered to the studio “Down Town”… "That Track “8” will appear on the timeline on “Track 8” on the time line Downtown. and IT will have all the track properties “In Tact”. that were placed/recorded included all the information that the “Up Town Tracker” impressed on the file including his “Notes” and whatever else he placed on the file at that time. Including “Sample Accurate” timeing right down to the frame…

In the collaboritive process, if the tracks is Up-Dated by another studio the new track is recorded on another timeline while the original track is left on the Drive in it’s unaltered condition… I guess that stands to reason…

Also… The Track’s files were recorded on a SCSSI RAID Drive… They don’t get removed from that drive, at any time during the production of the Project. The drive gets transportated from One-studio-to-another by “Snail” means. or in worst case. by the SCSSI RAID Back-up Drive… I’m guessing that… The intregrety of the file is a NO-NO, by any other means…

If in-fact IT was a mono track… there is no choice in the matter… IT’s a mono track… If IT’s a stereo track, IT’ll appear on two tracks on the timelines in any place the track gets repro’ed… I guess that stands-to-reason, as well…

I’m learning that this type of audio guy is not very fussy when IT comes to useing a Mouse to Curser Commands.

Bill…

Quote (learjeff @ July 09 2006,10:38)
Please explain the value of an SMPTE stripe in a wave file.

Hey Jeff;

The link I posted earlier has info and examples: http://www.creativemac.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=38586

Anytime you’re pulling tracks from one project to another or from different DAW software or to different DAW software it’s absolutely essential.

BTW - Flavio replied to my e-mail. It seems that n-track does not support recording to BWF, but it can import BWF and utilize the offset info in the file to place the track at it’s original location in the project. :(

I knew I saw reference to Broadcast Wave file support… But I didn’t get the oppertunity to insert any of those files on to a timeline and give them a work-out.

By any chance, did he express any interest into broadening the “Scope” of their use in any future Builds?

IT might mean that one of us could post a BWF file somewhere so he could de-cypher IT’s code to see if he could include support for IT’s use in a later build.

Bill…

Mr. X, it may be handy but it’s not necessary. We do a lot of internet collaboration using n-Track. To maintain time sync the bed track (track against which others record their tracks) has a count-in click. Anyone contributing a track mixes that count-in into their track before posting it. Then the engineer can align it in the timeline visually, if necessary.

Since we often use compressed files, broadcast wave probably wouldn’t work. But having timing and other info baked into the wave files would be handy.

Quote (learjeff @ July 09 2006,21:37)
Mr. X, it may be handy but it’s not necessary.

Hmmm… Try multiple tracks with 100’s of WAV files recorded and edited in n-Track and spread all over the timeline and then bring it into Nuendo or Logic. It’s most definitely essential.

Hundreds of wave files? OK, necessary in a case that most of us never see.

n-Track maxes out at 80 tracks, but few folks use more than 30 or so. When collaborating, we simplify by posting at most one file per track, extended to full length to allow synchronization. Also, we generally only transfer a few tracks: one bed track or a couple mix-minus tracks, and then the contributed tracks that folks record; usually one but I’ve done as many as 3 or 4 for different instruments on the same song.

The abilility to write BWF would be very important for anyone who very frequently moves parts between DAWs, or who moves large numbers of parts between DAWs. It’s a question of what we mean by “frequent”. I know dozens of folks who often import tracks from other DAWs for internet collaboration using n-Track, but it’s rarely more than one or two in a given day, and usually several days between without doing it. Most of us wouldn’t use this feature even if we had it, due to lack of compression for the format.

BTW, isn’t there a standard format for DAW project files, which would be better to use when moving the whole project? In that case you get plugin settings and everything, not just the wave files – and it’s one operation rather than one operation per file.

I have been taking tracks and mixing them down using the ‘replace original files’ option to save horsepower since version 1, like mixing all the tom and kick and snare files to one track, and the cymbals to another. Is this what stems are about? If so, it is cool to have a one-word signifier for the process! :) Saving the original wav files with a new .sng file allows them to be brought directly back into the original song using the ‘import tracks from .sng file’ in the ‘add channel’ options list, while retaining their information, i.e., location on the time line, effects, etc… I realize this is not quite ‘broadcast wav’ but for those of us working exclusively with n, it does the job quite well.

'til next time;
TW